OK I am dumb I have read thread, after thread, after thread, and everything on stoptech's website and I am still not sure which way you are supposed to run the hard lines off of the stock master cylinder for a adjustable proportioning valve.

So I drew a little picture. I am thinking it is suppose to be done like I drew it on the left but I am not sure.

Also does it matter if the lines to the left and right of the car, after you tee off to go to each wheel are the same length? some say yes, some say no.

<------Mike who's eyes are fried from reading for the last 5 hours and just wants someone to tell him.



Modified by ekim952522000 at 10:32 PM 10/5/2006


Modified by ekim952522000 at 11:03 PM 10/5/2006

 

Your picture doesn't work. I'm curious about this too as I'm going to remove my ABS before too long.

 

Does this help? Sorry if you dont' want me using your picture whoever this belongs to. That is the proper stock 4040 line routing. I don't know if you're trying to do something different or not..... Are you using the 2 piece or the one piece prop valve?

 

I want to use this adjustable proportioning valve.

 

ah ok. Yeah, no idea

 

bump for an answer, who makes that PV ^^ ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmsiR20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bump for an answer, who makes that PV ^^ ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tilton

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmsiR20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bump for an answer, who makes that PV ^^ ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup tilton they also have a turning **** type

 

your second pic is right

MC output -&gt; T to fronts
+
MC output -&gt; Proportioning valve -&gt; T to rears

-nigel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nscirocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your second pic is right

MC output -&gt; T to fronts
+
MC output -&gt; Proportioning valve -&gt; T to rears

-nigel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, Have you done it this way?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks, Have you done it this way?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes

-nigel.

 

Thanks

Do you know if it matters if the lines are the same liength after you tee them?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks

Do you know if it matters if the lines are the same liength after you tee them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i tried to get them close to the same length .. but with all the bends it's almost impossible .. just put the T in the middle of the car and it'll be fine.
bending the lines was much more time consuming than i imagined .. do alot of practice bends/flares before you start

-nigel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks

Do you know if it matters if the lines are the same liength after you tee them?</TD></TR></TABLE>


I don't think Hydraulics cares about line lengths... As long as you have fluid pressure it shouldnt matter if the lines are different lengths.

Kiwi

 

i got the T's, fittings, lines from a local parts place.
3/16" dual wall steel lines (FMSI brand ..made in canada). 25ft wasn't enough since i ended up screwing up a couple times

i had to make bubble flares at the prop valve 'cause i bought tilton's metric version .. the inverted flare version would have been easier

used Ridgid brand tubing cutters and flare tool .. pretty good stuff
taking your time reaming/deburring the tubing ends makes a huge difference in the final flare quality

-nigel.

 

The left picture is exactly what you want. If you were running dual master cylinders (not a stock master) then you would do the picture you drew on the right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HapaHaole &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The left picture is exactly what you want. If you were running dual master cylinders (not a stock master) then you would do the picture you drew on the right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nscirocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your second pic is right

MC output -&gt; T to fronts
+
MC output -&gt; Proportioning valve -&gt; T to rears

-nigel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hmmm this is exactly what I got when searching conflicting information? Is there anyway to know for sure which is correct when using a stock master cyliner?

HapaHaole have you done it the way you are sugesting?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmmm this is exactly what I got when searching conflicting information? Is there anyway to know for sure which is correct when using a stock master cyliner?

HapaHaole have you done it the way you are sugesting?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you join the 2 outputs together (left pic) and have a leak in the system you're screwed

trust me, the one on the right works

-nigel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nscirocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you join the 2 outputs together (left pic) and have a leak in the system you're screwed


-nigel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes that is a true statement and yes it will work, but if you are asking what is the proper way to plumb the system, believe the brake engineer, but hey, you dont have to. I could care less if no one listens to me HAA!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hmmm this is exactly what I got when searching conflicting information? Is there anyway to know for sure which is correct when using a stock master cyliner?

HapaHaole have you done it the way you are sugesting?


</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I have done both. You do not want a stock master trying to act like a dual master. A dual master can handle 2 separate systems of different pressures and our stock masters cannot. Adding that T then T'ing again balances the system pressure. Again, you don't have to take my word for it.

I can go into lots and lots of detail, but this can be a boring post.

 

Now I'm confused?

So if I do it the way I drew it on the right it will work and I have a safer system.

But the correct way is to do it like it is drawn on the right?

HapaHaole by your own words you say the system on the right will work, but then say the system on the left is the correct way?

So if the system on the right will work and is safer why would I want to do it like it shows on the left?

Not saying I don't belive eiether of you just want to figure out the best/safest way.

Is doing it with a stock master cylinder a half *** not safe way? Is the only way to do it right to use a dual master cylinder setup?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nscirocco &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you join the 2 outputs together (left pic) and have a leak in the system you're screwed

trust me, the one on the right works

-nigel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you only have 1 resevour your screwed either way, if you leave it stock and pop a piston you'll have no brakes in 1 lap.
I've popped pistons with all 3 setups no brakes in 1 lap.
Like Bota said, the one on the left is the proper way to do it with a stock master and aftermarket prop valve

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HapaHaole by your own words you say the system on the right will work, but then say the system on the left is the correct way?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i believe hapahaole is saying that if you want to use a stock master then your drawing on the left is the choice way to run the system.

 

I ran mine exactly like your second picture, and they work great. Front to rear bias is tons better than it was stock.

 

So what tools and what size tubing would I need to run my own brake lines?

I know I need a flare tool but there are lots of diffrent types of flare tools?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekim952522000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK I am dumb I have read thread, after thread, after thread, and everything on stoptech's website and I am still not sure which way you are supposed to run the hard lines off of the stock master cylinder for a adjustable proportioning valve.

So I drew a little picture. I am thinking it is suppose to be done like I drew it on the left but I am not sure.

Also does it matter if the lines to the left and right of the car, after you tee off to go to each wheel are the same length? some say yes, some say no.

&lt;------Mike who's eyes are fried from reading for the last 5 hours and just wants someone to tell him.



</TD></TR></TABLE>

On my first SCCA GT4 Civic I did it the way you have drawn on the right and had good results. But for the H1 that I'm "building" I'm doing it in a way similar to how you have it drawn on the left.

But I'm using this block instead. The 2 outlets from the master cylinder will go into either end. Then from the 3 ports along side each other 2 will go to the front brakes and the 3rd (middle) will go to the read and get the prop valve.







When I first posted these pictures back in 12/04 some folks disagreed with my thinking but it sounds like HapaHaole agrees.

The reason I want to do it this way is because the stock Honda system is a dual diagonal system, so both pistons in the MC are of the same diameter and go through the same stroke, I believe. Each port outlet supplies one rear and one front brake. So why not join the 2 and send it to the front since they front does the majority of the braking and bleed off what you need for the rear through a prop valve.

You'll loose all your brake fluid from the single resorvoir with any leak so I don't think that's a good argument. BTW, years ago I went off track with the GT4 car at Little Talladega and ripped off the RR stainless braided brake line. I lost the fluid very quickly. The remainder of the lap I just learned that I was using too much brake anyway.