Any of you autox guys running turbo's under your hood?

I have a b18b engine that I'm building for autox and track days. I'm trying to get some input as to what garrett t3/t4 series turbo to run. I know I want a quick spooling one but doesn't produce mass HP. I'm looking to max out 300-350whp by 7k at about 15psi (or whatever the best turbo in my situation can handle).

help...

 

Do a search. There are several threads about this. First of all, a T3/T4 is not the best turbo ever invented (despite what all the ricers say), and it's likely going to be pissing you off on corner exit. 15 PSI at an autocross or road course is a pipe-dream too... You'll never put down that kind of power at an autocross (unless you just blow the course), and it's just going to get heat-soaked like crazy after your first lap on the road course. Not to mention that making that boost level reliable on a road course is a lot more than a matter of "building" your engine. You also don't need 15 PSI to do well anyway.


Get a small T3, try a reasonable boost level like 6 or 7 PSI, tune it properly (don't use that FMU / missing link crap setup), and work on getting more air to the radiator and engine bay, as well as adding some engine bay venting. You'll have enough issues with that, so get that sorted out before you get too crazy with it.

 

That's exactly the type of response I need! I do plan on tuning it properly and I wasn't looking for huge HP but instead, I was looking for durability and reliablity. I havn't heard of honda guys boosting their cars and taking it to autox or track days. Most boost heads here like to run in a straight line I found out.

And I did search but had very little results as to what I was actually seeking. Are you running a turbo? what kind and what are your engine specs? And cooling? Anyone else has any input on this that you can advise me?

 

Yeah, I'm running a B18B with a small T3 turbo @ 9 psi. Engine is stock internals except for a cometic head gasket and ARP studs (a must have for road racing a turbo Honda). Transmission is a basically a GS-R with a Type-R LSD. For cooling, I added an upper vent in the front bumper, a drop-vent in the hood, and a fluidyne radiator. The hood vent really helped. This current season is the third that it has been turbocharged... it was a little problematic for a while at first, but it's pretty well sorted out now. Much to my own surprise, this car has turned a lot of heads with the lap times that I've been able to get out of it (comparable to the fastest Corvettes that I ran with last season). And I must admit, there's some smug satisfaction in going to an open track day with the Porsche club and watching them try prevent me from passing their 911's in my "lesser" car.

It's biggest strength, IMO, is the quick spool up and mid-range power. It's just like corner exit speed... the faster you get going early on, the more distance you're going to cover at a higher rate of speed. Being that I'm running a small turbo and stock B18B cams, the power really drops off by redline, but that's a small price to pay for the jump I get right after corner exit. It still doesn't compare to a well setup, torquey, RWD car, like a C5 Z06, but by the end of the straight, I can usually make up for the amount that it had pulled away from me.

Mod list, pics, and videos are here: http://www.turbols.net/cars/weston/

 

Go to a track day first, see how hard you work the car, then ask yourself if you want to throw a turbo on. I loved all my turbos but there's no way in hell I'd be comfortable on a road course with it. It can be done, but would be pricey.

 

Get a Garrett GT28RS. I have 300 whp, 210 ft-lbs of torque on a totally stock B18C5 engine except for thicker head gasket to lower compression to 9.5:1. Runs on 94 octane gas, 14.5 degree ignition timing at idle, and 9 psi of boost, 2.5" exhaust. Hondata S200 with RC 750 cc injectors and a Walbro HP fuel pump and all tuned properly. I got a kit from Full-Race. It is a lot more work than you might think (build this starting in November). But it runs phenomenal, with esentially zero lag. It will put a mega smile on your face. You have to get extra cooling if you run on road race tracks. Street or autocross use much less power over time, so cooling requirements are much less.

Expect to have reliability issues to sort out. You cannot just think that you will double the power of an engine and not have bunch of stuff to sort out. And as said above, it will cost you.

 

Wow, thanks for the input guys! I am anticipating problems throughout my experience with this whole build, but I plan on learning from it too. And yeah, I've already took a huge hit on the wallet with new pistons, rods, and main studs. I'm also planning to run an oil cooler. Now I don't wanna just throw one on there and expect it to work. How will this effect oil pressure?

Nice driving weston! And I see your car has a custom built turbo. Which off the shelf turbo should I be looking at that matches closest to the performance you're describing?


Modified by zerovandez at 4:35 PM 6/4/2006

 

Weston & descartesfool what wheel/tire combo are you guys running?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Weston & descartesfool what wheel/tire combo are you guys running?</TD></TR></TABLE>

205/50-15 Kumho V710's on 15x6.5 ADR Concept Pro's. I shredded one of the V710's at my last event, so I might run something different for my next event... I go through front tires kind of fast, and I could definately use wider rims & tires.

I ran a couple of seasons on old-style Azenis to save some money, but I was definately using them for all their worth in cornering, acceleration, and braking. I saw a substantial improvement in lap time (around 3 seconds) from going to V710's, even though I didn't really notice a difference except for corner exit.

 

great video weston. worked them cobra, bmw, porche, and vet. well done. i wasnt sure if you had it on your list but your car is striped right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by saver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great video weston. worked them cobra, bmw, porche, and vet. well done. i wasnt sure if you had it on your list but your car is striped right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. Yeah, the rear interior is completely removed, and I've dropped some weight from other areas too. On race day, it weighs about 2400 lbs + driver + gas.

 

I didn't read the responses so this may be a repeat, BUT if you want more power and MUST go turbo, I would definitely go with a GT28rs. There isn't any other turbo out there that I would go with for autox/road course. Good enough for 300 hp range and quickspooling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 rex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I didn't read the responses so this may be a repeat, BUT if you want more power and MUST go turbo, I would definitely go with a GT28rs. There isn't any other turbo out there that I would go with for autox/road course. Good enough for 300 hp range and quickspooling. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, the GT28RS is a pretty popular turbo for this use. A bit expensive though... I had a T3 custom built by a well known turbo shop for half the price.

 

I'm not what you'd call an expert on turbos, but I do know that a T3/T4 is bigger than you'll want to go if you ever want to set foot (or tire, rather) on an auto-x course. They just spool way too late and way too slow. In fact my first impression when driving a well-tuned T3/T4 Integra was "wow, I'd never ever want to autocross this thing."

 

The reason I mentioned a t3/t4 is because everyone in the "forced induction" forums seems to think they're the best to use. I've made a few posts in there to advise people of my goals, and that is to autox and track day events. I guess I was in the wrong place.

So what off the shelf turbo would you guys recommend in the T3 series? I hear that a .48 ar will get hotter, lose power at high rpm, but will spool quickly. I like the quick spool part but not a fan of the cons. What do you guys think?

 

If you want low lag, quick spool, which is essential for good performance on a race track, don't waste your time on anything but a GT28RS ball bearing turbo. They have a much more advanced turbine design (this was the main engineering development in the new product line) in addition to the ball bearing center section, both of which combine to make the car work almost as if NA compared to other older design turbos. The last thing you want in a car on track is to have to wait for the turbo to spool up and then come on with a bang. You want response right now when you just start to press on the pedal (assuming you've kept the revs high enough). I would not waste my money on a T3 or any other old school turbo.

I run 225/45/15 Hoosiers on 15x7x45mm offset Team Dynamics wheels. I have spacers in the rear (10 mm) but none in the front, fender liner removed and fender lips rolled.

 

Dude, I totally agree with you about that GT28RS. But my wallet doesn't. I'm not gonna be running this car at the track no more than 3 times a year. So do you think it would be cost effective to purchase it? Is there any T3 off the shelf turbo's you'd recommend?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zerovandez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude, I totally agree with you about that GT28RS. But my wallet doesn't. I'm not gonna be running this car at the track no more than 3 times a year. So do you think it would be cost effective to purchase it? Is there any T3 off the shelf turbo's you'd recommend?</TD></TR></TABLE>

T3 with the GT28 dropped in

I think you would have more fun with the stock NA set-up then a poorly pieced together turbo set-up. IMO, it's a GT28 or no turbo. No point in having the wrong turbo just so you can say you have a turbo'd car.

 

Search for posts by me, and Dr Pooface too.

&lt;-- gt2871R

Combustibly yours,
Chris

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zerovandez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude, I totally agree with you about that GT28RS. But my wallet doesn't. I'm not gonna be running this car at the track no more than 3 times a year. So do you think it would be cost effective to purchase it? Is there any T3 off the shelf turbo's you'd recommend?</TD></TR></TABLE>


The turbo is by far the cheapest part of HPDE with a turbo car. Sorry to burst your bubble, but cheap and fast usually come at the expense of reliability.

Keep money in savings for new turbos (cooked bearings), new motors (cracked ringlands, etc.), new exhaust manifolds (cracked), replacing anything melt-able in the engine bay, lots of tires, LOTS of expensive brakes and expensive brake fluid, etc.

-Chris

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

is that just trash?

 

is it?

 

No bumping.

What is it?

 

Not a garrett.

 

just thought I'd tell my experiences. First off, I have b16 with a holset hy35 turbo. Basically the turbo is not used at autoXs but at track days, 5 laps at a time its soo much fun. Last year the car made 268.8whp and 187ft/lbs but I cracked ring lands, which I suspect was after running a very short exhaust making boost spike to 13psi when it was only tuned for 10psi. So I had to put b18a pistons in at the last moment. So this year I'm done a bit on power but I still love it. The turbo spools at about 4000rpm and full boost is at about 5250rpm and power doesn't drop off at all. I haven't really run into that many problems but I only run 5 laps at a time. I had to upgrade to fluidyne still rad and my brakes had to be upgraded.