Altilude

now before you tell me to search, I have. Also please do not just say - buy a p72, p28 or run chrome, hondata, aem ems etc - it's not an option for me at this point. I also know you can run it removed with a blanking plate - but i DO NOT want the check engine light - so I want this to work - that being said this is the *BEST* clarity to the subject that I found, thanks to a fella by the name of Qveon.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can do it what you need is a relay and a 0-5k ohm rheostat from radio shack. Now on the drivers side tower where the egr solenoid is located, you will see the plug from the ECU that operates the EGR solenoid to allow vacuum to go to the EGR valve. On top of the egr valve is also a plug for the lift sensor.
Wire your relay so that instead of going to the solenoid, it goes to the coil of the relay. Cut the wire going to the ECU for the EGR lift sensor. Then wire the relay so that the wire on the pole goes to the EGR life sensor wire going to the ecu and the normally closed position is wired to the EGR lift sensor wire going to the sensor itself. Then the position that is actuated needs to be tied to the Rheostat set at about 2200 ohms and then after that needs to be spliced into the EGR lift sensor's 5v wire.

There and WALA, no more CEL for a non-working EGR. This is a lot easier to do right at the ECU. If you have a Pin readout of the ecu wires, then do this right there and you won't have to run any wires across the engine bay.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just need a little help picturing this, specifically the wiring (any electrical guru's out there?)- if anyone has done this in the past/recently if you could draw it out, or take some photo's it would be greatly appreciated - also if you know what kind/size of relay is required? (he mentions something about normally closed) I have some elementary electronic skills - so i'll most likely attempt it no matter what - just don't wanna fry the ecu if someone out there knows exactly what is to be done.

Altilude

What i can see so far from a p13 ecu pinout. (i'd like to jerry rig this right at the ecu rather than string wires across the engine bay).

A11 red2 EGR Control Solenoid

D12 wht/blk EGR Valve Lift Sensor
D19 red/wht EGR Valve Lift Sensor

syntax.

if you dont get a cel without the block off plate, you wont get one with it. Just leave the plate underneath the egr and leave all the wires and hoses connected.

Why make it more difficult than it needs to be?

kulrevon

if you have an obd1 prelude and you use a block off plate. you will NOT get a check engine light. as long as you keep the sensor and the vaccum hose pluged in.

So that is eaiser then doing wiring and hoping you dont mess up you ecu. and your cars wiring.

Altilude

i'm pretty sure you still get the cell when going over 40mph (with blocking plate and egr still plugged in), since i got a blocking plate - i'll give it a try first - but from my experience f'n around with two egr's in the past - i got a cell once the car was warmed up and going over 40mph or so.

this wiring bit is supposed to take care of that.

darockstar

yea itll go on once its warmed up

Altilude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by darockstar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea itll go on once its warmed up</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's been my experience in the past...

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kulrevon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you have an obd1 prelude and you use a block off plate. you will NOT get a check engine light. as long as you keep the sensor and the vaccum hose pluged in.

So that is eaiser then doing wiring and hoping you dont mess up you ecu. and your cars wiring.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the easiest method, as long as the ecu thinks its opening the egr and senses it , then no code, f wiring in resistors, i mean removing the egr will save you like 2 ounces , what is that .000000003 seconds shaved off your quater mile?

Altilude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
what is that .000000003 seconds shaved off your quater mile?</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, you totally don't know me - not into the race thing at all (and if i was i would be more into track then 1/4 mile drag), i'm not a weight pincher like some (:. I'm more against the f'n light... I'm yet to pop my blanking plate on and try as suggested but in the past i tried with one egr in place, and a second egr plugged in - and i was getting the cel @ 40mph warmed up- staring at a CEL bugs me, and even worse you don't know if another engine code crops up because you get used to looking at it all the time.

In any case - i'll try the "easy" method, and report back if i get the light or not. thanks for the suggestions everyone

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Altilude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

haha, you totally don't know me - not into the race thing at all (and if i was i would be more into track then 1/4 mile drag </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah no insult implied, just being wacky,, hehe try the easy method its the best.

kulrevon

well when you tried it before was it on an obd2 car. because those will throw a code if you block them. the p13 just senses if the valve open but does not check how much air goes through

donz

hey altilude, have you got it fgured out? I'm really interested since I have a swap, and I'm missing most of the EGR components. Eventually I will get a new ECU, but I don't want to spend tons of money for a little light to go away right now, any help is good.

Altilude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well when you tried it before was it on an obd2 car</TD></TR></TABLE>

no it was on the same obd1 prelude....but that was monkeying with two egr's at once.

I'm thinking if you are getting a CEL light occasionally anyways due to EGR, the block off plate and egr still plugged in - will prob still throw the occasional CEL, i don't get it all the time (in an OEM setup), but when I have the engine under load and going up a hill, and let the rpms drop below 3k it will usually throw it - and yes it's been removed and cleaned numerous times to no avail. i'm just sick of getting the cel.. that's all (;

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey altilude, have you got it fgured out? I'm really interested since I have a swap, and I'm missing most of the EGR components. Eventually I will get a new ECU, but I don't want to spend tons of money for a little light to go away right now, any help is good.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no i was installing my 4bidden shortshifter today, and busted the little cube that sits on the pawns head... can you say ouch? - so i had to fab something out of some plastic part from an rc car, to get me by until my local dealership get's me a couple (yes i ordered a couple because i'm afraid i'll split it again when trying to push the pawns head into the cup can we say jerry rig or wut? In any case - i'll try on the weekend (blockoff plate, w/ egr plugged in) and report if i get the CEL - but keep in mind my car throws the occasional EGR related cel anyways. boo-urns for me.

Altilude

Just to update.. I installed the KMS engineering blocking plate today for the EGR, i removed the EGR to clean it (used some carb cleaner) and a tad of wd40 on the rod that has to slide back and forth for the valve... in any case, with the egr plugged back in, vacuum hose connected - I went for a rip - initially i was impressed -=no light=-, i even did some low rpm in 4th, and some highway speed driving... however the first hill i came too the CEL came back - F i hate that cel. so yea - i think if you already have a semi-faulty EGR this method isn't gonna work... so how about wiring up a resistor.. anybody? has qveon even been around this site lately?

Qveon

Haha i read H-T from time to time. What do you need to know?

Altilude

sweet! you are still around... i guess i'm just a little confused about the wiring of this resistor, and relay.. if you could DRAW it - it would help tons.. like the connections to the relay, to the egr, and solenoid, and to the ecu.

i've read over your initial explanation a few times, and i just can't picture it.

Qveon

Ok here. You have 3 wires to concern yourself with.

On the D-block of ECU connector. You will see:

Red/Wht (5v+ for sensors)
Wht/Blk (EGR sensor position)

On the A-block:
Red (EGR soleniod)

Ok so take your relay and coil positive goes to the Red on the A-Block. Coil neg goes to ground. No since you wont have an EGR, its ok if the ECU sees no voltage for when it is not in use. Take the pole side of the relay and tie it to Wht/Blk. and take the actuated side of the relay and tie it to the rheostat (or 2200 ohms worth of resistors), then tie the other end to the Red/Wht wire. Thats all.

Here a picture:

Altilude

that's so awesome - thank you so much qveon - exactly what i was looking for (;

cheers.

Green Lude 93

which side is the actuated side? the 87 or 87a?

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Qveon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok here. You have 3 wires to concern yourself with.

On the D-block of ECU connector. You will see:

Red/Wht (5v+ for sensors)
Wht/Blk (EGR sensor position)

On the A-block:
Red (EGR soleniod)

Ok so take your relay and coil positive goes to the Red on the A-Block. Coil neg goes to ground. No since you wont have an EGR, its ok if the ECU sees no voltage for when it is not in use. Take the pole side of the relay and tie it to Wht/Blk. and take the actuated side of the relay and tie it to the rheostat (or 2200 ohms worth of resistors), then tie the other end to the Red/Wht wire. Thats all.

Here a picture:
</TD></TR></TABLE>

def very sick, report back with a second opinion and let us all know if this works..

Qveon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Green Lude 93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">which side is the actuated side? the 87 or 87a?</TD></TR></TABLE>
87 is the actuated pole. 87a is normally closed.

Altilude

so in any case - I haven't flaked off, just been a bit busy - I've racked up all the goodies i need for the project, including a Hella, 12v 40 amp relay (9 bux CAN), and a 0 - 5K potentiometer (also cheap), using a multimeter set to measure resistance, I dialed the potentiometer to 2200 Ohms (or 2.2K), I mounted the **** to a little piece of electrical hardware plate (59c at crappy tire) - that way it's all nicely bundled and toight. I haven't gotten much further, or wired it to the ecu because i've been too busy - I plan to cut the rod on that potentiometer down to a quarter inch or something (and recheck ohmage) and mount it somewhere next to the p13... in any case here is a looksie. I'll update how it works or not - or other probs i run into. My egr (blocked off and hanging free) behaves for the most part, just the occasional bogg in 4th gear or something (letting the rpms drop below 3g) set it off... tripping the CEL.. i'm hoping this little device will take care of all that. I also can't wait to rid my engine bay of more crap

Qveon

Cool. that looks a lot better then my setup. Heh my setup is in the engine bay.

Altilude

update....

so anyways I installed the little device in my car today, mounted right next to the p13...had to change the gauge of some of the wires (in the photo above) - because they were just too big to mate with the harness wires.

took it for a rip, waited until it was right warmed up.. did some various driving with it - and it seemed to work like a treat. HOWEVER the light did come on once when I tried to make the engine really bog on a hill in 4th at like 2g rpm... I don't often drive like that (I was really trying to just trip the cel) so i'm not too worried about it - if I see it comes on more frequently i'll try fiddling with the rheostat (which is currently pegged at exactly 2.2K). Finally after the run went ok, i gutted the rest of the egr related stuff out of my engine bay.

Qveon perhaps you can give me some final advice here... what range of the rheostat should I play with? 2.1K - 2.3K? or is there a direction i should specifically go? thanks for all your help with this - it's been very much appreciated since you first showed up in this post.

i'll upload a pic later.

Altilude

so that's the pad I found for it, it's kinda strapped down, but worked out because there was a bolt hole for the ground wire. under the cover plate it should be pretty secure from feet. Kinda awkward spot to work tho.