I have the oh so dreaded surgin idle problem, researched it on here and several sites. Hondata says that it should read .45 other people mentioned a .5 volt reading.. so which one is it for my engine (closed/no throttle)? Also.. these readings are only for when the engine is running right? Please any help would be useful

 

it should be .5V for closed throttle on H22's. the engine doesn't have to be running to check this.

 

you just have to rotate it to adjust it.

 

well.. my voltage changes depending on whether the car is on or not.. ??

 

dont have any lights on or anything that sucks power so you get a good reading all you need to do is turn your car to the run postion to check the voltage it does not need to be runing

 

I'm sorry to bug everyone who's already dealt with all of this before several times, I printed out thirty or so pages from here off of my search.. it helped a lot, but unfortunately all of the replies were about different engines...
another problem is that I don't where are the following things (reffered to in all of my searches)
Cold Idle Value (hondata mentions this)
Idle Air Control Valve
what coolant is everyone talking about? (radiator fluid)?
coolant temp sensor
Fast Idle Thermo Valve
okay.. here goes it.. the major break down..

problem: idle surges aka "hunting idle?"
Only happens in nuetral and with clutch pressed in .. not during regular driving...
It slows a bit (surging) when it is warmed up
light pedal (gas) pressure causes "bucking" at low engine speeds

my setup: JDM H22A in a 97 civic EX with Hondata with P28 ECU and datalogging (can't use the datalogging yet because I don't own a PC labtop )

what I've done so far after reading the whole archived "surging idle" thread:
1.) adjusted TPS to read .45 at idle and .5 with car ingnition on but not running, this slowed the idling down.
2.)tightened idle screw all the way down, plugged both inside ports up.. makes car Idle beautiful.. bottom port makes more a difference than the top port.
3.) sprayed all lines and TB an Manifold with TB cleaner, no change in idle
4.)completely covered throttle body, engine dies

Questions:
1.) is air any air supposed to pass through the throttle plate when closed? Is it supposed to seal perfectly? Should it be exactly flush, (90 contact throttle body wall?)
2.) What does anyone suggest is my first step?





pics to help you help me along the way :D thanks for any help I mean it :D





[Modified by H22AMedina, 7:56 PM 4/2/2002]

 

Is that your MAP sensor flopping around?? You really should mount it somewhere.

Sometimes the idle hunt is caused by a bad or getting bad FIV (fast idle valve). It doesn't close up all the way when the engine reaches operating temp. Too much air raises the idle and the ECU tries to drop it but drops too low, then it jumps up again. Nasty cycle of up-down.

As for the bucking, I had that on my Si. Most noticeable at about 25mph in 3rd gear. My 02 sensor output was low and lazy. Replacement cured that problem. I suggest you fix your idle first, then pursue the bucking if it's still there.

 

could you show me with the illustrations where the FIV is?

thanks again

 

The Fast idle thermo valve is attached to the bottom of the throttle body by 3 10mm screws. Oh yea and 0.5VDC is correct! If that doesn't correct your idle, check your coolant level and your IACV.


[Modified by JDMspecEG6, 2:09 AM 4/3/2002]

 

if any of you with an h22 in the civic have a fuel controller fields or apexi, etc... lean the mixture out at the 1k rpm or idle mixture. also depending whether or not the egr and other related valves are hooked up could have an effect on idle.

 

H22AMedina: Hey man, one question I got about the pics. Do you have your IAB canister hooked up? I noticed that the vaccum hose from the IAB diaphram is run directly to the intake manifold.

 

If I were you I would replocate the MAP sensor and give it vaccum from the ports you have plugged on the back side near the TB, and plug the hole your using now. False signals from the MAP can affect idle and the vaccum source on the manifold is better.

Air is supposed to bypass the throttle not go through it. Air should not be able to go around it. Thats what the idle control screw is for.

Be sure that both hoses on the iacv are connected to the cooling system. Disconnect the iacv, (its the one under the throttle cable and the plug is right under the blue vaccum source for the fuel regulator) and start the car, open the idle screw so it will idle. You want it to idle at about 500 rpms. Turn off the car, reconnect the iacv, and reset the ecu. Start the car, it should idle at about 700-800 rpms. If the iacv doesnt not affect idle it is faulty and should be replaced.

 

is the cooling system the same thing as radiator fluid? I have the radiator fluid topped off fine. Is there a seperate cooling system for the intake?

I have pulled the IAVC with the throttle screw all the way tightened, started it and it goes up to 2300 or so rpms. My throttle plate doesnt look like it's flush even though my TPS says it is closed. Visually the throttle plate looks like it's at a very slight angle.

 

yeah.. supposedly it uses the vacuum to open the secondary runners.. as soon as I give it gas the butterfly's open up

 

The butterflies open when the diaphram looses vaccum. They close when the diaphram senses vaccum. So they should slowly close as RPMs rise. Do you have your original IAB canister?

 

I thought they don't open (butterfly's) until higher rpms (about 5) for added torque, while mine just stays open as soon as I give it gas.

 

There should be no air going past your throttle plate when closed- when you close both ports in the throttle body and the idle screw is screwed completely in- the engine should die. Try this- when idling- try to force the throttle plate closed by turning the linkage backwards(pry on it gently basically)- if your idle smoothes out- your throttle plate is leaking. You might be able to adjust it- try this and let us know what happens. Hopefully you have used the proper throttle body gasket- this can be a source of leakage too.


[Modified by fixhondas, 6:39 PM 4/3/2002]

 

fixhondas: thankyou thank you thank you.. I was hoping so much you would reply.. I most definately have been trying to figure that out. So would m throttle plate be completly flushed to make a perfect seal? I'm assuming it should be if a throttle plate should be a perfect circle. Also.. I noticed that the bottom port does make a bigger difference.. but plugging both (with throttle screw tightened down-righty tighty style) make it idle perfectly. I noticed that my throttle plate has a throttle stop screw.. should I lower it to allow my plate to close completely? It is very hard to get to it though.

 

you can adjust the throttle plate with the screw- it is a pain. I had a prelude throttle body on my crx that wasn't fully closing- so I ground the throttle stop screw on the throttle body down a little at a time with my carbide burr to close the plate until I got it just right.

 

I like to set my TPS to 0.45 at closed throttle- I think the ECU looks for .5 and sometimes temperature can cause the TPS reading to be slightly different sometimes.