All right here are my tenative plans for the buildup of my b16 after much advice and suggestions.

<U>-For the intake side: Injen CAI, Aebs intake mani, thermal intake gasket, 68mm AEBS TB, everything ported to match/flow smoothly. </U>

<U>-For the exhaust: '96 spec ITR 4-2-1(RAGE POSSIBLY COMING SOON!), 2.5" custom exhaust with the mugen style twin loop (very nice tone but need a resonator to turn it down a notch) </U>

-For the head: Supertech springs, ti retainers, Black nitride flat valves, bronze valve guides, some kind of stage 1 cams(still on the fence with what to finally go with), <U>JG Cam gears, </U>ARP Headstuds, OEM HG and of course a P&P(3 angle) <U>RC 310cc injectors. </U>

and later on this year(probally winter):
-For the block:OS P30 pistons, POSSIBLY B17crank and rods(for a little extra push ), ARP rod bolts, micropolish crankshaft, balance and BP rotating assembly, All new OEM gaskets, seals and bearings.

Tuning will be done with crome pro @ hookups since they did such a bitchin job on the base tune.


What do you think? I'm open to any suggestions on what I could do to improve on the build just keep in mind 3 main things, it's staying my DD, must run on pump gas, and cost is somewhat of an issue.

EDITED TO SEMI-FINAL PLANS!(still open to suggestions...all the parts in bold& underlined are already on the car, the ones in italics I have but waiting to install, ready and waiting)

Modified by broketuner-egb16a at 5:43 PM 6/13/2006


Modified by broketuner-egb16a at 2:51 AM 7/9/2006

 

Sounds good

 

So everything sounds like it should go smoothly? Does anybody know if I can make around 200whp with this setup, or would I have to do some more work to the block?

 

If i were you i would also put a 2 layer headgasket (stock is 3 layer) on there to bump the compression up a little bit. Even with the CTR's and the flattop valves you should be around 11:1. If you do the 2 layer gasket you should be around 11.4:1. That would be an easy and affordable way to bump up your compression and power and still be able to run the motor on pump gas. Also, concerning the rods.. i dont think eagle rods are necessary for this setup. I would just get ARP rod bolts and have a machine shop press the CTR pistons onto the B16 rods and also install the ARP rod bolts. Put the money from the rods toward a quality header or getting a better P&P. As for the 200whp.. thats quite an achievement on a B16. Most people with fairly built 1.8l vtec motors struggle to reach that point. I guess it could be possible with your setup depending on the quality of the head porting and tuning. Either way sounds like a nice setup good luck with it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If i were you i would also put a 2 layer headgasket (stock is 3 layer) on there to bump the compression up a little bit. Even with the CTR's and the flattop valves you should be around 11:1. If you do the 2 layer gasket you should be around 11.4:1. That would be an easy and affordable way to bump up your compression and power and still be able to run the motor on pump gas. Also, concerning the rods.. i dont think eagle rods are necessary for this setup. I would just get ARP rod bolts and have a machine shop press the CTR pistons onto the B16 rods and also install the ARP rod bolts. Put the money from the rods toward a quality header or getting a better P&P. As for the 200whp.. thats quite an achievement on a B16. Most people with fairly built 1.8l vtec motors struggle to reach that point. I guess it could be possible with your setup depending on the quality of the head porting and tuning. Either way sounds like a nice setup good luck with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking of tuning it with the s100 hondata system, by "bubba" @ do it dyno center(Everyone that I know that has had their car tuned by multiple tuners @ different points all say he's the best).

So is pro fab not that great of a header or something? It looks damn nice and a local shop owner likes those the best for the under 500 price range. I know the spark racing makes slightly more power(according to whjat I've heard) I'm just not sure that 2 or 3 HP is worth the extra $275.

Guess I forgot to mention it but I was thinking of a buddy club HG. Not sure how many layers it is but it's almost as cheap as OEM. I'll ask about that though, because I want to get as close to a 12.0 comp. ratio without exceeding that(to still be able to run on pump)
Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by broketuner-egb16a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So is pro fab not that great of a header or something?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didnt see that you were doing a profab header in the description.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by broketuner-egb16a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
<U>-For the exhaust: Profab header</U>, 2.5" custom exhaust (I'll try to get the rsr ex mag look & sound again, I have it nailed with my 2.25" setup)</TD></TR></TABLE>


So is profab a good header for the money? Are their other headers out there in the same general price range that are any better? Just want to know because I can't seem to find to much info on this particular header.

 

Don't use CTR pistons unless you are prepared for the consequences, See Here https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=717928

Get a JDM ITR piston or better yet get CP pistons.

Even with all of that, I don't think you will get to 200 WHP, but 165~170 is pretty good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sal &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If i were you i would also put a 2 layer headgasket (stock is 3 layer) on there to bump the compression up a little bit. Even with the CTR's and the flattop valves you should be around 11:1. If you do the 2 layer gasket you should be around 11.4:1. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Um wrong! CTR pistons in a B16 will yield you a 11.6 to 11.8 compression add a 2-layer headgasket and flat faced valves and the compressions goes to 12.1+

PR3 head/B16 Block

STD = 11.643438609136867
.25 OS = 11.703231023151065

PR3 head/B17 Block

STD = 12.193487116069006
.25 OS = 12.256369577319077

PR3 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.58636786521145
.25 OS = 12.649248792586258

P72 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.924594026551906
.25 OS = 12.989047869209281

PR3 head/B18A/B Block

STD = 12.825536009218106
.25 OS = 12.88971493738735

P72 head/B18A/B Block

STD = 13.170743903246784
.25 OS = 13.236528215133324

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Um wrong! CTR pistons in a B16 will yield you a 11.6 to 11.8 compression add a 2-layer headgasket and flat faced valves and the compressions goes to 12.1+

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well put

 

There is allot of know it alls in here, don't listen to any of them. Follow Ill Will's motor that was built by Guilotine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't use CTR pistons unless you are prepared for the consequences, </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Um wrong! CTR pistons in a B16 will yield you a 11.6 to 11.8 compression add a 2-layer headgasket and flat faced valves and the compressions goes to 12.1+
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

QUOTE-If i were you i would also put a 2 layer headgasket (stock is 3 layer) on there to bump the compression up a little bit. Even with the CTR's and the flattop valves you should be around 11:1. If you do the 2 layer gasket you should be around 11.4:1.-QUOTE

Do not use a 2 layer head gasket. You have almost the EXACT same setup as I have. The thing about CTR pistons is that people don't realize that the pistons sticks out higher at TDC than the stock ones do. So you have to compensate for that by putting .000 into a comprsseion calculator on the Piston to Deck height. I have the sam Nitride coated flat Supertech's and CTR pistons, I have not yet clayed my motor, but from doing my research and talking to people, I have been told to use a OEM headgasket and not to mill the head any, cause of the pistons, you should get like 11.7 compression maybe 11.67.

 

You can save your self the extra money on buying those eagle rods and jsut use stock ones, they are good up to 250 HP, and you won't be making any where near that. I mean if you want to go ahead and make it a rock solid engine, but you won't have to worry with the stock connecting rods either. Micropolish the crank too.

 

Yeah I plan on getting the works done to the crank.

I was wondering If I would need to upgrade the injectors. There's a couple of different people on here that are selling RC 310s and 440s for less than 200...and the 440s are brand new, 310s claimed to have only been used for a week.

 

200 whp B16.

Head:

-Supertech valves
-RM Gen 2 springs/retainers
-RM M22x/S2S2/Jun 3 cams
-headwork done by RLZ/RM/Portflow
-Blox/S2 Pro Series/AEBS IM
-Toda/GE cam gears

Block:

-PCT pistons(81.5)
-ARP rod bolts

You'll want to do some sort of good clutch/flywheel combo. Doing a Toda header is a must to hit 200 whp in a B16, you won't accomplish it by using a DC Sports or some other cheap ****. You can run a Spoon/Mugen/BC or Cometic HG, or you can use 1 layer from an oem one. Use a AEM 1st gen cold air intake, not that V2 ****. Have all this tuned using H-data S200/300 or Crome Pro by a GOOD TUNER, you'll hit 200. The headwork and header are vital to this motor if you wanna see 200.

 

I already run an exedy stage 1 clutch and lightweight flywheel.

I'll most likely use a pro fab header, I was told it'll make the most power for under 500, my buget is kind of limited so almost 1000 for a header is on the extreme side. (i'd like to not go into any amount of debt over an engine build)

I also plan to port match the intake mani to the head. (AEBS intake mani) as well as the inlet matched to the TB. So everything flows nicely. I will also go with a bigger TB...I was thinking of 65-70mm.

I will get it tuned either by "bubba" @ do it dyno center or the guys @ church, whoever is avalble first I guess (I've heard both are top notch). Definatly using a hondata system.

 

Both of those tuners are awesome, and it's a good idea to do some work on the IM. I dunno about that Pro fab header though, I have yet to see anything beat the Toda manifold in a .6 app.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DRAGLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Um wrong! CTR pistons in a B16 will yield you a 11.6 to 11.8 compression add a 2-layer headgasket and flat faced valves and the compressions goes to 12.1+

PR3 head/B16 Block

STD = 11.643438609136867
.25 OS = 11.703231023151065

PR3 head/B17 Block

STD = 12.193487116069006
.25 OS = 12.256369577319077

PR3 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.58636786521145
.25 OS = 12.649248792586258

P72 head/B18C Block

STD = 12.924594026551906
.25 OS = 12.989047869209281

PR3 head/B18A/B Block

STD = 12.825536009218106
.25 OS = 12.88971493738735

P72 head/B18A/B Block

STD = 13.170743903246784
.25 OS = 13.236528215133324</TD></TR></TABLE>

According to the compression calculator on http://www.c-speedracing.com/h...c.php the compression of a b16 with PCT pistons is 10.8:1? I always thought that was an accurate calculator?

 

that compression calculator is wrong. would you trust the numbers of the calculator where you put in numbers and it shoots out a compression ratio, or would you trust ominman, who has spent hours measuring and calculating these compression ratios to the tee? thats a no brainer to me.

as for your set-up...to start off, i suggest NOT buying high compression, flat faced valves. your compression will already be right around what you are shooting for. use a stock headgasket as well.

--youre not going to hit 200whp with buddy club spec 3+, they just arent that large of a cam. skunk2 stage 2's or toda b's are a minimum.
--intake manifold and throttle body choices sound good, but i wouldnt run a throttle body any bigger than 67mm (there is such thing as having too big of a TB)
--stock injectors will work just fine, as well as the stock fuel pump. dont waste your money on aftermarket injectors.
--why you would buy eagle rods is beyond me. this project doesnt even come close to requiring them. DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!
--bottom end balancing and blueprinting is a great idea..it definately makes a difference on a high revving motor. make sure you get your flywheel and pulley balanced with the crank.
--your exhaust system sounds good, but as it was mentioned before, 200whp will be extremely difficult without a high-end header like the toda or the hytech. make sure you run a straight pipe. NO CATALYTIC CONVERTERS!

now, think about the little things that will give you the advantage. ive learned from experience. im shooting for the same goal and i have come up with some mods that you dont normally think about. every hp counts when you want 200.

--MSD ignition and blaster coil........hondata intake manifold.......mandrel bent exhaust.......make sure you have good plugs, good wires, check your valve clearances, get your motor tuned on a good day, blah blah blah...

good luck sounds like a strong motor. mad respect for b16's

 

Ok so no rods, just ARP rod bolts instead, stock fuel system should be fine, a 65 mm TB(I've decided to give maxbore a try, they take your TB and make it bigger), and definatly a good tune on a hondata system. Anything else?

 

If your trying to get every last horsepower out of the motor i would also try experimenting with different intake piping lengths and different velocity stacks. My friend (allmotormatt) gained close to 11whp on his GSR build just by adding a velocity stack. But then again ive also heard of them making no difference at all on some other similar setups. My friend was lucky and had the option to try a few differently shaped velocity stacks because the tuner (jeff evans) had a bunch in stock. I would try and borrow one if you know someone that owns one and if it ends up making more power buy one after the tune. Good luck... keep us posted on your results when you get it tuned. . Oh yeah and sorry for those wrong compression #'s. I just read through the whole CTR Compression ratio thread and it seems that the c-speed calculator is way off.

 

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with new info/questions that may come for sure.

I just picked up the supertech black flat valves from jhpusa today, 2 hour road trip, but at least I got them damn cheap (180+ whatever the tax was), they are the stock sizes. So I WILL be using the flat bottom valves due to the fact that I already have them.

Just out of curiosity will using ITR pistons yield a different comp. ratio than ctr pistons? I was told type r pistons are type r pistons (was told that by inlinefour.com, even though I asked specifically about ITR and CTR) but, I have a feeling(based on what I've read on here) that may be incorrect, so I figured I need to ask. I just want to be able to use the valves I got with whatever pistons I go with and still be under 12:1 comp. ratio for pump gas purposes.

 

b18c integra type-r pistons are completely different than b16b CTR pistons. with those valves you are going to be reeeeaaaal close to 12:1, but it shouldnt be a problem as fas as daily driving purposes as long as its tuned well. i have a little over 12:1 in my daily driver and im doing ok so far.

using integra type-r pistons in your b16 will not give you the compression that you want.

 

B16A+PCT pistons+flat valves=bueno.

You'll be fine man, do the ctr's.