I know that this topic has been brought up before, but I wanted to get some new opinions. So here goes.

Do any of you guys have your ABS removed from your Type R's?? If not what do you guys think of it?? Here are my thoughts on it. You would lose weight. 30-40 lbs is what i have heard (i could be wrong). Myself, I try not to engage it when I am track driving because it just messes me up, and I think in some cases I may be able to stop faster. However, I am not that experienced yet at track driving. I still have a lot to learn, so maybe I am just doing something wrong.

Realtime takes there's out. Is it for weight, or is it also for the feel??

I know that for daily driving in conditions like rain or snow that the abs is awesome, and that there is now way that I could stop as fast without it, but I am not going to be driving my R on the street very much more anyway, so lets try to stay just in the performance side of this. Let's here what everyone has to say.

 

In autocross, I use ABS all the time. Once you get used to the characteristics of the system it starts to feel "normal". I like our ABS over other systems because it seems to cycle so much faster that the pulsation is minimal. I don't think we can compare our stock braking system to the advanced systems on race cars. The race cars systems are much better at braking with the bigger and thicker rotors, multi-piston calipers, slotted rotors, etc. etc. Since realtime has upgraded their brakes (I had a picture until my harddrive crashed ) to a better system, I think they chose to remove ABS for incompatibility issues, using the NSX airbox, and the fact that better brakes are MUCH better at modulation than ours, so maybe ABS is not needed.

 

Isn't ABS the ultimate threshold braking?

The only way to find the threshold for any give set of driving condtions, you have to lock the tires, right? You have to exceed the threshold to find where it is. Then you want to release to get back to the threshold...then brake, etc...which is what ABS does for you.

 

The Type R ABS system is awesome. Do not disconnect it.

The Realtime guys do not run ABS because they run 4 piston upgraded 12 inch brakes. The WC rules do not allow you to run ABS with upgraded brakes because that would be too much of an *advantage*. They allow you to run ABS if you keep your stock brake system and do not upgrade. In Improved Touring ABS is illegal on all cars because of the big advantage the cars equipped with ABS would have over everyone else. So to re-state the fact, ABS is good and a system like the one on a Type R can not be beat.

 

is R abs any diferent than gsr abs?

 

I don't have facts (like part numbers or whatever) but when I owned a GSR, it seemed that the pulsation was longer and not as frequent. For example when I went into ABS on the GSR, it seemed to pulsate like 10 times per second where the ITR pulsates like 15 times per second.

 

definitely keep the ABS... look at the Sport Compact Car where they did the Ultimate Street Car Challenge or whatever its called... the datsun 510 equipped with monster brakes, monster wheels, and monster rubber, and a monster engine... hell, the thing was just a monster... and it came in DEAD LAST! NO ABS...

ABS GOOD!

 

One of the reason SCCA PRO racing called for the removel of ABS systems was because of the ITR. The system gave the drivers an "unfair advantage". I use mine and I won't take it off unless I have to. My $.02.

 

knowing how to stop your car is very imporant, although awsome drivers can stop a non-abs car very quickly, YOU CANT BEAT ABS!!!!!

 

This is true in the majority of cases.

 

ITR ABS is lighter and more advanced than the other integras. Also, it seems to give you a little bit of leeway, letting you lock up for a moment before engaging, essentially giving the driver a chance to find the threshold in optimal conditions. ABS is good for two main reasons: It will keep you from flatspotting expensive tires, and it can exercise control on an individual wheel, while you can only make the same demand on all four wheels, which isn't always best. It is an advantage, drivers don't like to think that they're inferior to a machine, but a good R&T article a while ago showed that in almost every scenario (except like pure skating-rink ice and loose gravel) a Mercedes with ABS stopped better than a professional driver's best attempts in the same car with ABS disabled. Dry, wet....there's a reason the origional Viper's stopping distances sucked despite it's awesome brakes.

 

ABS =

Mike K = drag race ****, and i don't need ABS

 

Just to clarify:

The ABS on the Type R is a 3-channel system, meaning that it can control the front wheels individually, but can't distinguish between the rears, right?

 

This would be true if you were comparing the '97 ITR to the remaing '94-'97 Integras. But in '98+ all the Integra models used the same ABS system.


[Modified by BSQ, 3:35 PM 3/11/2002]

 

The ITR uses a 4 channel system... the rears are controlled separately.

Will

 

Thanks for all of the posts guys. This helps out a lot.

 

Okay, with all the praise for the ITR ABS system, should I be using it intentionally at the track?

 

I've always thought I could stop quicker without abs. When I cross the threshold from max brakeing to abs it feels like the car accelerates a little. Maybe its just me?

 

It also feels like you accelerate (decelerate less) a little when you lock up the tires. Static coefficient of friction (rotating tire against pavement) is usually more than dynamic coefficient of friction (locked tire sliding on pavement). So your braking force will suddenly drop when you lock up. The ABS would then kick in just at that moment and release that wheel so keep it rotating.

That is probably what you are feeling.

 

In 98 and up or maybe 99 up all integra's use the same type of Abs system and it is much better than the earlier systems in both quicker response and bettter dependability. What makes the ITR different is in the calibration of the system is optimized for the oversized front rotors and the to allow more spirited driving. And if you ever want to drive with out it just drive with your E-brake on for like a minute or so lightly and it will deactivate fo;r that cycle after you cycle the key it'll work again.

 

quote:
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The ABS on the Type R is a 3-channel system, meaning that it can control the front wheels individually, but can't distinguish between the rears, right?
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"The ITR uses a 4 channel system... the rears are controlled separately."

I always thought that the ABS system on the ITR was a 3-channel system.

It has "4 wheel-speed sensors and electronic/hydraulic control unit," which means that it can determine brake lockup at all 4 corners, but becasue it's a 3-channel ABS system, it has to brake both rear wheels at the same time, right?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how this works, or have been misinformed about it being a 3-channel ABS system.

If yall have info to help clear this up for me, I'd appreciate it.

 

Does ABS enguage that easily on Rs? With Hawk HPS+ pads, i can not get ABS to enguage on my car, at VIR I could push the brake pedal to the floor, and ABS would not kick in, only i've ever felt ABS work on my car is in the rain, and its VERY violent in my car.

 

I know a guy that remove his ABS from his ITR Race car. The car was locking the fronts before the rears even started to work. Easy to fix with a brake bais switch or different Master Cylinder.

Nathan Thomas races in the GT Production races here in Australia. The rules are:- They are allowed to remove the ABS, but they have to use the Stock Master cylinder!! Also no-one is allowed a brake bais switch. So the ABS went straight but on.

 

The 2 times i went to TGP w/ the Hawk pads and street tires i couldn't get ABS to
'kick in'. Then again my car is really old, and the ABS is setup differently?

 

From ‘use’ of the braking system on track.... I can say that the rears work separately from each other under heavy braking.

If you brake (hard) with the slightest bit of turning input on the steering wheel... you can feel the rear end “work itself” back into place to facilitate “straight line” braking. Kinda hard to explain...

I can feel the rear abs kicking in (you can hear the front and feel it more) while braking but can't tell which side is actually working.

Will


[Modified by Willard, 11:25 PM 3/11/2002]