Hi Guys......My 4th gen prelude is my project car, and I use it for racing/autocrossing. Assuming that money is not an issue, since I want to spend whatever is necessary to get the best performance, and I don't care about ride quality.......what is the best suspension set up for my Lude?

I want the best performance I can get. I know the Tein Flex coilovers are great, but I wondered if there was another setup....maybe a shock and spring combo that would be as good. Thanks!

 

Hey, you are just the person I'm looking for. I unknowingly bought some stiff sport shocks and springs, which are matched. I have the tein NR setup, I couldn't find anyone selling these shocks in the states, but in Japan they are selling for around $1200 us dollars. The ride is pretty stiff and sporty. For me though, I want a soft comfortable ride that I can drive on bumpy roads with. I'm asking $600 for them.

Here's a link to the specs on them:

http://www.tein.co.jp/nadamp2he.html

It's the one for BB6 Prelude, but it fits my 4th gen perfectly fine.

 

That sounds like a pretty good price. How many miles did you use them for, and what did you do for the top mounts......did you reuse stock ones?

 

Yeah I reused the OEM top mounts, I think you can get pillowballs if you want. I'm not sure how many miles are on them. I got them off a wrecked, parted out car. The shocks seem to be in perfect condition, just some scratches in the paint when I was installing them. The springs work fine too, but there's dirt and/or possibly rust on the them towards the top, I didn't bother messing with it or cleaning them when I installed. I'll take pics of them and send them to you if you want.

 

Best track suspension that a weekend racer can afford (just over $2000 with Hypercoil springs) is probably the Koni 3011 double-adjustable monotube.

All the JDM suspensions will fall short of a Koni or Bilstein race shock, even the nicer stuff like Zeal, upper-end Tein, and Toda. They tend to use inferior internals and they all come stock with lower spring rates in the rear (you want higher rear rates for the track) so you'll have to pony up more $$ to get custom rates. On top of that, good luck getting most JDM suspensions rebuilt after a few seasons of racing. Koni and Bilstein are pretty easy to have rebuilt in just a few weeks.


I'd give Koni and Bilstein a call and see who can get you a better setup at the right price. Koni supports racing to a greater extent here in the states so they may be the right place to go to. The Koni guys in Kentucky are also familiar with the Prelude since just about all the guys racing Preludes use Koni and have had custom built or revalved shocks done up at the KY shop. I've had good luck with the Bilstein guys for regular (non-race) stuff but they don't have first-hand honda experience.

Somebody on HT has the Koni 3011 - I think 71x? His sn on PreludeOnline is 71dsp if that helps.

You should post this in the suspension forum if you want to get serious advice on a serious suspension setup. It won't be long before someone posts "get KYB AGX and SKUNK2 coilovers - they rock!"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HxClude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the JDM suspensions will fall short of a Koni or Bilstein race shock, even the nicer stuff like Zeal, upper-end Tein, and Toda. They tend to use inferior internals and they all come stock with lower spring rates in the rear (you want higher rear rates for the track) so you'll have to pony up more $$ to get custom rates. On top of that, good luck getting most JDM suspensions rebuilt after a few seasons of racing. Koni and Bilstein are pretty easy to have rebuilt in just a few weeks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

your post i agree with for the most part...however, this part I had to disagree with you..a lot of japanese coilovers and their parent companies have headquarters stateside that allow for rebuilding. In fact, the turnaround time for a rebuild for Tein is about one week...as far as the lower rear spring issue, japanese suspension tuning theories differs, they prefer to dial in oversteer using the swaybar...as far as the inferior parts issue..i'm not too sure about that, but Zeal coilover are often lauded for their dampening, I myself had a set of s6 on my old civic hatchback..

don't know much about the koni 3011 that you spoke of, but by dual adjustable does that mean that the bottom of the shock can be threaded upwards to lower the suspension? if so, koni has the suspension game locked...

my main reason from straying away from shock/spring combo's is the inability to preload the spring as a fully threaded coilover that allows for upper and lower perch adjustment would.

I've got Buddy Club Racing Spec dampers that are on there way to me, so i'll let you know how those work out..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

your post i agree with for the most part...however, this part I had to disagree with you..a lot of japanese coilovers and their parent companies have headquarters stateside that allow for rebuilding. In fact, the turnaround time for a rebuild for Tein is about one week...as far as the lower rear spring issue, japanese suspension tuning theories differs, they prefer to dial in oversteer using the swaybar...as far as the inferior parts issue..i'm not too sure about that, but Zeal coilover are often lauded for their dampening, I myself had a set of s6 on my old civic hatchback..</TD></TR></TABLE>

First off, it's damping, not dampening; getting things wet has nothing to do with this.

Second, it doesn't matter if you can get your dampers rebuilt if the valving's **** and the people doing the rebuilding don't dyno the shock before sending it to you. Tein et. al. don't do this, Koni does, on every shock.

The valving on JIC dampers, for example, sucks *** and that's been shown by independant testing v. Koni dampers. Which leaves the valving on the rest as a best guess.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
don't know much about the koni 3011 that you spoke of, but by dual adjustable does that mean that the bottom of the shock can be threaded upwards to lower the suspension? if so, koni has the suspension game locked...</TD></TR></TABLE>

He means that both the compression damping and the rebound damping.

You're confusing adjusting ride heigh independant of pre-load (which is a bunch of **** anyway) with damping functions.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
my main reason from straying away from shock/spring combo's is the inability to preload the spring as a fully threaded coilover that allows for upper and lower perch adjustment would.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You realize that you're totally contradicting yourself here, don't you? When you move the perch up, you're in effect pre-loading the spring.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've got Buddy Club Racing Spec dampers that are on there way to me, so i'll let you know how those work out..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sweet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H0ndaJunkie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hi Guys......My 4th gen prelude is my project car, and I use it for racing/autocrossing. Assuming that money is not an issue, since I want to spend whatever is necessary to get the best performance, and I don't care about ride quality.......what is the best suspension set up for my Lude?</TD></TR></TABLE>

First, I'd say BUY NOTHING until you've done more reading.

Second, if money weren't an issue then you wouldn't be looking at Tein Flex, you'd be looking at Moton, Penskes, JRZs or Ohlins which are about $3000 per corner and that's before you add in springs and mounting hardware.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I want the best performance I can get. I know the Tein Flex coilovers are great, but I wondered if there was another setup....maybe a shock and spring combo that would be as good. Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Off the shelf koni yellows are good up to about a 500# spring rate. You could get a set of Koni yellows and G/C sleeves and either Eibach or Hypercoil springs and go that route IF you want ride height adjustment, or get a set of aftermarket lowering springs with the Koni Yellows.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off, it's damping, not dampening; moisture has nothing to do with this.
</TD></TR></TABLE>ok

so we want to have a dick fest huh?

damp·en Audio pronunciation of "dampening" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmpn)
v. damp·ened, damp·en·ing, damp·ens
v. tr.

1. To make damp.
2. To deaden, restrain, or depress: “trade moves... aimed at dampening protectionist pressures in Congress” (Christian Science Monitor).
3. To soundproof.


damp Audio pronunciation of "damping" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmp)
adj. damp·er, damp·est

1. Slightly wet. See Synonyms at wet.
2. Archaic. Dejected.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb6h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sweet. </TD></TR></TABLE>yeah, you made yourself look like a total douche..


https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878895 there's something to run through your silly little head. btw, jic blows and i don't recall mentioning them once. i don't contradict myself because when i raise the lower perch on the bottom of the shock, it has no effect on the spring. you do realize that with a shock/spring setup, whatever you do with ride height directly affects your shock travel...but you being the genius that you are, you know that of course right?

if you wish to further continue this debate, feel free to pm me.

 

i've been to a track event with billy (71dsp)

his car is insane

but yeah man, if you think tein flexes are the highest out there, you need some more info

basically gc/koni's are the cheapest/best deal out there until you go insanely high

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok

so we want to have a dick fest huh?

damp·en Audio pronunciation of "dampening" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmpn)
v. damp·ened, damp·en·ing, damp·ens
v. tr.

1. To make damp.
2. To deaden, restrain, or depress: “trade moves... aimed at dampening protectionist pressures in Congress” (Christian Science Monitor).
3. To soundproof.


damp Audio pronunciation of "damping" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmp)
adj. damp·er, damp·est

1. Slightly wet. See Synonyms at wet.
2. Archaic. Dejected.

yeah, you made yourself look like a total douche..


https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878895 there's something to run through your silly little head. btw, jic blows and i don't recall mentioning them once. i don't contradict myself because when i raise the lower perch on the bottom of the shock, it has no effect on the spring. you do realize that with a shock/spring setup, whatever you do with ride height directly affects your shock travel...but you being the genius that you are, you know that of course right?

if you wish to further continue this debate, feel free to pm me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

harmonic oscillations in physics experience a "damping" effect. shocks are also otherwise known as "dampers" b/c they "damp" a spring's oscillation. unfortunately, alot of people misuse this phrase, and have done so often enough that "dampening" and "dampener" are now considered the same thing as the real terms.

it's just bad letter economy to use the extra en.

not sure what the S6 dyno thread has to do with your reply, but i'm wondering what you mean by raising the lower perch. i'm guessing it's something to do with the shock fork?

 

and btw, koni 3011, 2822 (IIRC), ohlins, penskes, motons, etc etc. are the dampers for those to whom money is no object.

otherwise, if you don't feel like spending 5-10K on dampers, my choice would be custom rate GC's/shortened revalved koni yellows, lots of lap dances from the money i've saved.

 

yeah, it does have a bit to do with a shock fork...

on certain coilovers...

the bottom of the shock can be threaded off of the shock itself... while there are 2 locking collars that handle the position of the spring...

coming from a civic, there's a lot more available on the market in terms of competent suspension...ie...the Tein RE or RS(which features an external reservoir that allows you to adjust bound/rebound independently)...i'm not sure how the question of inferior japanese valving was raised, a lot of coilovers including the racing spec line by Buddy Club offer a 46mm piston... i mean, i can understand how it's hard to understand when the only things available for a prelude are the basic/ss/ha/flex...

however, there's no need to be a dick like someone who will remain unnamed..

some people swear they're the only ones who have gone road racing before

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Some bullshit

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What did you prove genius, that you can cut and paste? You still couldn't pick out the correct definition and use of the word if it poked you in the eye; e.g.,

"Physics. To decrease the amplitude of (an oscillating system). "

Oh ****, what's a spring's do?

Notice how you're still standing in that damp puddle of **** that started out as a ring on your pants and ran down your leg because you got so excited that you found the cut and paste function, only to have you accomplishment dashed by the untoward realization that you don't really know what the expletive you're looking for, nor what it really means in the applied context.

Say, how's that "damping" working out for you, or have you not been able to convince those last two brain cells to rub themselves together?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by el pollo diablo on Zeal valving &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
-It would be better if the low speed valving (&lt;0.066 m/s) ramped up faster (steeper slope)
-It would be nicer if the stiffness adjustments didn't change the bump/compression at the same time as rebound, althugh it's not a big deal.
-Rear shock adjustments don't really do anything, might as well run them full stiff.
-the shocks are obviously valved for stiffer front springs.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now back to the current discussion,

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbumpiiepepeheeio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't contradict myself because when i raise the lower perch on the bottom of the shock, it has no effect on the spring. you do realize that with a shock/spring setup, whatever you do with ride height directly affects your shock travel...but you being the genius that you are, you know that of course right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh sweet Jesus, you're not actually this ******* stupid, are you? Becuase if you don't see how utterly idiotic what you're saying is, then you're a moron of epic proportion.

If you're rasing the LOWER perch of a sleevetype coilover setup and increasing the static load on the spring, you're preloading the spring.

And what are you trying to say about ride height?

Regarding ride height : try and muse on this wet noodle brains, why do short stroke, short body shocks exist? AHHHHH perhaps to retain full suspension travle at reduced ride height!! Eureka. See, facts shine through no matter how much bullshit and parlance you try to pile on. You're so confused that you've wound that noodle brain of yours far too tight, you should try shutting your mouth for a while and coming back when you're actually able to comment without totally taking a **** in the middle of the room for the rest of us to clean up.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundpoopoodoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you wish to further continue this debate, feel free to pm me. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What do I want to PM for?

You don't even know what "double adjustable" means with respect to shocks and you're going to try and "educate" me?

 

wow...arguing with middle aged men who drive preludes always gets me turned the hell on...

it appears that your definition of a coilover is differing from mine...

your obvious excitement in every reply is encouraging, but you're really not saying more than the same thing over and over..obviously, it's like apples and oranges right now.

i appreciate the entertainment, and the debate has been fun, but you stick to your theories, and i'll stick to mine. if you need to, go and tell on me to one of your little mod buddies.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soundbomber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow...arguing with middle aged men who drive preludes always gets me turned the hell on...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice, but you really should leave that kind of talk for the S&M clubs you like to frequent with your boytoy Pepe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it appears that your definition of a coilover is differing from mine...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It appears that my useful commentary differs from yours; eg., my comments are based on facts, yours are based on superfolous musing of a clueless clown.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
your obvious excitement in every reply is encouraging, but you're really not saying more than the same thing over and over..obviously, it's like apples and oranges right now.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Obviously, you have yet to grasp the idea of finishing and ending a sentence or paragraph with the same, unified and cohesive thought. Try it sometime, you might find people less likely to stare at you in a bewildered horror wondering what the hell you just said.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i appreciate the entertainment, and the debate has been fun, but you stick to your theories, and i'll stick to mine. if you need to, go and tell on me to one of your little mod buddies. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Debate? You rolled over like a little puppy pissing himself.

I suggest you:

Quit talking at me, and look down at the pile of bullshit you're standing in and apologize for stinking up this thread for everyone, then try and buy a clue as you don't know dick about the topic at hand. And lastly, leave with the nice attempt to save face intact.

 

Holy Crap! I didn't mean to get everyone fired up this much! LOL

I don't think that Tein Type Flex coilovers are the best that there is......I'm not that clueless! I was merely using those as a reference. I'm not woried about spending a couple of grand, but I think that $3000 a corner sounds a little excessive......especially for a car that will be driven on only amature circuits. I'm not looking to go pro or anything.

I have Megan racing full coilovers on my Accord, which are nice because the price was right, and they have the same features as the Tein Type flex setup.....pillowballs, 32 level adjustment etc. I haven't seen any like that for the prelude in the same price range as the Megans.......unless I go with a shock and spring combo.

I want a decent size ride height drop, and I want much better handling for the track. So what about Koni Yellows, with Eibach Sportlines? would that give me the performance I'm looking for?

 

save face? what's the point? i've already been labeled as an undesirable for questioning the ultimate supremacy of Koni/GC right? why stay? so i can sit here when i'm not busy racing with my revalved 3011 with double adjustment and my custom rate ground controls behind my screen with my huge e-****? but you're right, i should go call my boytoy Pepe, he's a much better listener than you are.

Thanks for all the "facts" too, you didn't prove one thing really...you're sitting there talking about "sleevetype coilovers" i'm sitting here talking about coilover systems, but ok... your unquestionable maturity and intense grasp of suspension modification have humbled me...

i didn't realize that criticizing koni's and ground controls is the honda-tech equivalent of sleeping with someone's mother these days.

 

Dosen't preload with only the lower pearch also raise your ride height?

Say I have a 500lb/in spring put one inch of preload or 500lb of preload by raising the lower pearch one inch. Now when you put the car on the ground the first inch of down travel is a 1000lb instead of 500lb like w/o the preload. So if you raise the spring pearch you raise the car one inch(assuming one inch of spring travel = one inch of suspension travel) unless the car has no static sag.

Is this right?

Where as if you could adjust the upper pearch also then you could move the whole assembly up or down and basically would reduce the static sag by an inch? If you make the ride height the same.

I'm trying to relate this to the Koni's I'm getting soon. I would guess that if I lowered the lower spring pearch it would lower the car, and reduce the preload on the shock spring assembly.

Thanks
matt

 

i have a feeling that some people aren't getting what i'm trying to say



^ that obviously is a zeal coilover disassembled...notice how the bottom of the shock body can be threaded off?



^this, then, is a zeal coilover assembled...if you're not too slow, you can notice that you use the bottom half of the shock to raise up the bottom mounting point of the shock. this in turn, shortens the overall height of the coilover itself. WOW! I JUST LOWERED MY CAR WITHOUT ALTERING SHOCK TRAVEL OR UNLOADING THE SPRINGS AT ALL!!

 

I get ya, my Megan Coilovers are the same way. There's a separate adjustment for ride height that doesn't screw with the preload on the spring.



How much are those Zeal coilovers?

 

Konis with Ground Control sleeves would be a good economical option. According to Pat ( pretty sure its Pat) at Koni, you can order the Koni sports with SPSS3 race valving right from the factory. tell your dealer/shop to add RACE to the end of the product number. this would let you handle 500-600lb plus springs without running the shocks at their full limit (think they can run ~800lbs but I'd have to check - to be honest, I know the basics but I'm still learning a lot about valving, spring rates, and race setups)

Koni + GC = ~$850

Koni spss3 valve + GC = ~$1300

Koni 3011 + springs = ~$2200, maybe more, call Koni

Monkey , 71dsp and a lot of guys from the autocross forum on PO.com are the guys to talk to. I highly recommend you at least get a trial membership and check it out. A lot of knowledgable guys that are happy to offer advice without the extra bullshit (like the stuff that showed up on this thread)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HxClude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Konis with Ground Control sleeves would be a good economical option. According to Pat ( pretty sure its Pat) at Koni, you can order the Koni sports with SPSS3 race valving right from the factory. tell your dealer/shop to add RACE to the end of the product number. this would let you handle 500-600lb plus springs without running the shocks at their full limit (think they can run ~800lbs but I'd have to check - to be honest, I know the basics but I'm still learning a lot about valving, spring rates, and race setups)
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Per Lee Grimes at Koni, the SPSS3 valving is good up to 1200# springs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Koni + GC = ~$850

Koni spss3 valve + GC = ~$1300

Koni 3011 + springs = ~$2200, maybe more, call Koni
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your numbers are spot on, my SPSS3 shocks, 4 coilover sleeves from Koni and 4 hypercoil springs (2 700#, 2 800#) were 1400 shipped to CA from Kentucky.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H0ndaJunkie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How much are those Zeal coilovers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

$2400 from ENDLESS but im selling them for $1200, they are for itr.

 

Damn, was almost hoping I was wrong Wish I could swing $1400 right now. Looks like I'll be revalving the Bilsteins and picking up GC's. Don't know anybody thats set up bilstein sports for 500-600lb springs so guess I'll be a test mule.