I need some feedback from you guys.

My ITR has 160,000km and I did a baseline dyno run on a Maha-TAT Dyno which produced 152whp. I thought these numbers were pretty soft seeing as I saw B.Fitzpatricks (SCCA DS Champion) posted numbers of almost 170whp.

I was always under the impression that a stock ITR was good for 160-165whp, and Fitzpatricks car with the Magnaflow exhaust and optimum timing advance, had numbers that were atainable.

So we started testing.......first off, my car has always had 16deg advance and when we went to 19deg we produced 154whp. At 20deg advance, 157whp and finally with the distributor cranked to the max, we made 159.9whp.

Next , we did a compression test and leak down....the results were scary.....195-160-140-200 approx was the compression test with no significant increase with oil in the cylinders afterwards..... the leak down confirmed that the head was tired...3%-60%-40%-10%.

So my next plan was to replace the head with a brand new stock one..( fresh springs, fresh cams, fresh valves, perfect seats).

I go back to the Dyno and now I produce 145whp at 16deg advance and then 143whp with 18deg advance......
What gives!!!!!!????

So my questions are really......what range of WHP should I expect. I know each dyno has different numbers but what have you experienced first hand? Some people say 140 is reality and some say 165 is reality.....can there be such a big difference in Dynos.

I know that initially I wasnt concerned with the actuall numbers, as a Dyno is used for tuning...but how can I be going backwards?

BTW, the idle has stabalized since the head has been swapped and throttle is much more responsive. Compression is up to 210 across the board, with leakdown shoeing 3% across the board. With oil in the cylinders, I get 245compression and I know my rings are slightly leaking.
The car feels good, but it is winter here and the snow tires don't let me feel the pull.

What would you do?

 

even less power with the brand new head? dyno numbers obviously differ from dyno to dyno, is there another R that can take a few runs to see how you compare? do you know what your a/f ratio looks like? typically Id say on a dynojet a stock ITR should be around 160-165whp. not sure how a "maha-TAT" dyno compares to a dynojet.

 

stock only with aemcai
http://memimage.cardomain.net/...l.jpg

 

mine stock with aem cai (with very dirty filter... on a mystang dyno, which i heard read lower than dynojets?) (165hp, 118tq)

145 sounds loooow.
http://penpen.ca/images/itr/dyno/dyno.jpg

 

yeah something is wrong.
This basically stock ctr put down 160...all it has is a no name cai... and 2 1/4 exhaust.

From what ive seen being posted on the board high 160s to 170's for stock itrs

 

99 jdm itr
short ram intake
jdm header
2.5" exhaust
high flow cat
hondata

=174whp

but was overheating at the time, probably a bit higher if it wasnt running so damm hot "fan wasnt kicking on and rad cap wasnt holding pressure"

 

Thanks guys for the feedback. I am going to run a friend low mileage, stock ITR this week and compare results.

 

i got 161 on a bone stock 2000 itr.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bbqman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMy ITR has 160,000km and I did a baseline dyno run on a Maha-TAT Dyno which produced 152whp. I thought these numbers were pretty soft seeing as I saw B.Fitzpatricks (SCCA DS Champion) posted numbers of almost 170whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Remember that different dynos produce different results. Most dyno numbers are from a Dynojet. Chances are, you cannot directly compare results from a Maha-TAT dyno (whatever that is) with Dynojet results.

 

you said the head was "tired", is the new head brand new, or rebuilt?

 

Do you guys think a type r en gine can pull 205 to the wheels with stock internals ????

 

Hey Carl,

The HADA guys and I did a couple dyno runs not too long ago. My stock engine pulled about 162 whp @ 18 advance.

Now with a chipped p72 ecu, DC 4-1 header with open exhaust and VAFC tuning took it to about 186 whp.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bbqman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">..... the leak down confirmed that the head was tired...3%-60%-40%-10%.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hate to say this now with the hindsight presently available, but it looks like you may need some bottom end work such as fresh rings.
Just how exactly did you determine that the "head" was tired, and did you find any physical evidence of that upon removal and inspection thereof?
Best wishes on getting it all running to the standard you'd expect.

OMG! I just read all that and realized I'm starting to sound like GK.


Modified by zygspeed at 5:02 PM 3/11/2005

 

Down on power after swapping heads - were the valve seats cut and and lapped properly?

 

Sounds crazy low. Another very good barometer of engine hp is quarter mile trap speed. Assuming your car isn't gutted, your trap mph is a very good indicator of health. 93-94 should be where a stock 97-98 ITR falls, some of the 00+ cars were quicker up to 96mph. A slightly modded ITR, header, intake should turn at least 98, and maybe as much as 100 or a tick over if you had the best header, dyno tuning, blah, blah, blah.

I'm at ~99mph and I've got a tired motor with just a JDM 4-1 and Comptech Airbox.

 

&lt;--- 95mph trap on a humid summer night

 

it may be a stupid problem like this... unfortunately.


on my part, but i had it installed at the autobody when they put together my front-end. 157/153

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THCBOOSTED &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you guys think a type r en gine can pull 205 to the wheels with stock internals ????</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm gonna try for 200whp with cam gears, fpr, Hondata, and the major bolt-ons in a month or two. I've heard in these forums of it being done.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys, but to answer a few questions......

the replacement head is brand new.....and the valve seats are OE , not touched...I can't, I run SCCA DS class.

yes the cylinders are 1/1000 over but the new leak down test reveals 3% across the board and the compression 210 across. The car feels fine.

I know actual WHP numbers vary from dyno to dyno and yes the MAHA-TAT is among the most pesimistic, but I wonder if anyone ever has seen that low on any dyno, with a stock ITR and good health.

Next week, I will run my friends 01 ITR with 50,000km and see what he does to compare base runs.

BTW, the MAHA dyno is one of the few Dynos that calculate the flywheel Hp too on the cool down.....funny thing is that I got 195 crank HP...go figure.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm gonna try for 200whp with cam gears, fpr, Hondata, and the major bolt-ons in a month or two. I've heard in these forums of it being done.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah I Dyno'd 217 whp 142 tq with my ITR, granted its a '00 spec JDM motor with Buddy Club Spec 4's, Portflow springs and retainers, 1-piece Head gasket, AEM CAI and a Dynaimic AutoSports 4-1. interestingly I gaind 12 hp with the AEM Vs. the J's , and the power with the AEM was better through out the powerband

 

What you have done to the bottom end.

 

it's that canadian air, it is not as oxygen rich as air here in the states....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GUILOTINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah I Dyno'd 217 whp 142 tq with my ITR, granted its a '00 spec JDM motor with Buddy Club Spec 4's, Portflow springs and retainers, 1-piece Head gasket, AEM CAI and a Dynaimic AutoSports 4-1. interestingly I gaind 12 hp with the AEM Vs. the J's , and the power with the AEM was better through out the powerband </TD></TR></TABLE>

What dyno was that on? I find those numbers very hard to believe.

 

I would be curious to know more about the 217whp and 142 torque. I posted a topic requesting information from ITR owner with BC4 camshafts. Please share some information if you have a chance.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1181821

Responding to the original topic in this thread, I have a JDM ITR swap in my EK with Short Ram, 2.25" catback, and aluminum flywheel. On a Dynojet (also a conservative tool) I put down 169.1 whp and 120.9 wtq with p/s and a/c hooked up. My compression test was 250-250-250-250 and my leakage test was 0%-0%-3%-0% so I would like to think I have a pretty healthy motor for having virtually no mods.

I definately think it would be worth your time to get another R there for you to dyno on the same tool under the same conditions before you go spin your wheels and your wallet trying to find and fix a problem with your car. Spending $100 on dyno time to find out if you need to spend $$ on your car is better than spending $1500 on a fresh head/cams/retainers/springs to find out that you didn't need it as badly as you thought.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bbqman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I know actual WHP numbers vary from dyno to dyno and yes the MAHA-TAT is among the most pesimistic, but I wonder if anyone ever has seen that low on any dyno, with a stock ITR and good health.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I only got 130something, i believe it was right around 135 or so with a bone-stock '97 on a Mustang dyno. I know it was fairly healthy also. If i can find the chart i could tell you exactly , but it was a few years ago, so i doubt i could find them. This guys dyno was a heartbreaker for many people.