i recently installed a 3 bar map sensor, from 10psi, i went to 12ish, then i hit 15psi....then i cranked it up one last time to 17psi. i was tuning timing according to the knock sensor data @15psi and i started to make progress in performance. i was getting shorter times in which it took me to do a 3rd gear pull. i felt that it could take more so i upped the boost like a damn junky. the tires broke loose during a 3rd gear pull when she hit full boost.....the pulls i do in 3rd are from 1,5000rpms or lower to 6,200rpms. according to the knock sensor, theres no signs of detonation and air/fuel ride in the low 11's and dip in the high 10's at full boost......but its a flat air/fuel throughout the whole rpm range.

this is a 3rd gear pull @15psi, watch the knock sensor data drop as it wanted more timing around 5,000rpms

this is a 3rd gear pull @15psi, this is where i added a lil timing 5,000rpms and up, log data shows it took me .22 seconds less to go through a 3rd gear pull from 1,750rpms to 6,203rpms. same stretch of highway, same conditions. i felt this on my butt dyno, power didn't fall off, i felt it keep pulling. also note how the knock data kinda fits in with what it should have been as rpms go up. it fills the drop in voltage. i get 15psi by 3,700rpms


this is of a 3rd gear pull @17psi, i hit 16psi at 3,700rpms and then it slowly climbed to 17psi at 4,00rpms then peaked out at 17.xxpsi at 4,200rpms, then it slowly fell to 16.8 and held there. pull was done from 2,200rpms to almost 5,200rpms, still no signs of knock, and this is on 93 octane.

no dyno results yet....sooner or later i'll get to it. but i did dyno @8.4psi and made 209whp/221wtq.
i figure this should at least put me around 300whp. the engine seems to be taking it very good. but i'm also pretty sure i'm pushing the limits of 93 octane and pushing the limits of my engine, according to my injector duty cycle, theres still room to boost on the 450's duty cycle is almost 75% at 17psi, i will not disclose my fuel pressure as i will get smack talk about it, i do have a High Pressure Walbro to back up the fuel pressure tho, just say i dont see more then 87psi at full boost. soo far my fuel system has been running for over 12,000 miles at its current state. this is all done street tuning my AEM EMS.



Modified by b_ron007 at 10:09 PM 10/10/2004

 

WOW! good stuff... can't wait till you dyno with more boost!

curious if you dont mind sharing how much total timing your running in boost and how are you sensing knock (oe sensor or ?)?

 

11.83 timing above 5,000rpms @16.8psi.
when i peaked out @17.xx psi i was at 11.48 degrees.
yes, i'm using the stock knock sensor. i have seen knock on the knock sensor before, and it'll spike to over 3volts, i'm not seeing any detonation or spikes. well at least no spikes that stand way above the rest of the engine noise.

this is what knock/detonation will look like on a datalog.

 

thanks, thats great info!

is your base timing at the dizzy still 15-16?

edit: the ems is sooooo sweet...

 

on a side note, i've tried running timing like some H22's, LS's, B16's and B18's........the F23 doesn't like much timing. i have tried running more timing while i was on 10psi, and all i have to say is that there were spikes all over.

also, according to the IAT, the air temp kept going lower as boost climbed, soo does that mean i'm still in the efficently of the compressor?

 

its cause of your bores. big bores don't like timing and boost

 

i thought bigger bores required more timing :?
one of them EMS tuners told me this

"an F series cannot take as much timing as the LS, so don't listen to them if you are stock internals.... for some reason the F series have a poor combustion area comparitively and are inherently prone to detonation. "

i figured out that out tho by trying to run more timing with less boost. seemed to have detonation all over.

 

i am definitely not going extreme as you are, just sumtin to keep w/ the V6s. i don't understand the maps u hav but i'm sure i'll meet some guys who can translate

 

those are datalogs. i dont think this is going extreme. tuners use them to tune a car.

the amount of boost i'm running on a stock F23 is a lil extreme. i figure......since theres quite a few B-series making over 300whp on a a stock block, why can't the F-series?

 

how are your egt's with this low of timing?

 

Sweet deal. I'm about to embark on the same journey myself. 300 wheel is the goal. Keep us (especially myself) up-to-date with your progress

 

Post that fuel pressure!!! What psi is is your static Fuel Pressure?

 

8O 70psi with my adj. fpr
been running like this for quite a while. theres also high pressure Walbro intank pump to make sure things are in check.
bout my exhaust temps....i duno, dont have a EGT, but it has lasted me this long. been boosting for over a year on this block. bout timing, i pulled enough to make it not detonate, that was it. so i figure temps shouldn't be too high. been running 10psi since Feb. on the same timing map, but of course i had to pull more timing as boost went up.

 

Your static fuel pressure is set at 80psi or 70psi?

 

If your static fuel pressure is at 70-80. Thats way to high. You either need bigger injector to turn down the pressure or just start to turn down the pressure a little at a time. My F23 is turboed too and I run 780cc injectors with static fuel pressrue around 35-40psi. I have the timing backed off a little, may be 1-1.5 degress per pound of boost and no detonation. I should get a chance to get her on the dyno soon and tell you whats really happening. But its been running fine.

 

^ he knows it is high. it has been working for him like he said, so i agree with him, if it works dont **** with it.

 

70 psi base fuel pressure.
so i'm only seeing max 87psi of fuel pressure. why not crank it up if u got a fuel pump that can do it? theres stock injectors all over using FMUs that see fuel pressures way higher then that. i idle 14.7-15:1 and cruise around the 15's, under boost i'm in the 11's and air:fuel is flat throughout the rpm range on a WOT pull.
timing......i'm pulling a around 1.5 degrees too, whatever i tried, the F23 doesn't like much timing at all, anymore then what i'm running now, i'll start to detonate. would be nice to see what race gas would be like.

 

Sounds like this thing is moving now. You should get get her back on the dyno... Show how much torque these monster produce at 5000 Rpm. Ha ha.