What I am saying here just might save your transmission, as I think I just might have destroyed mine today by doing something that has never been looked at as problematic: using the stock Integra speedometer cable pickup. Basically, I heard a nice little pop while driving down the road, and then a grinding sound coming from the speedometer. Since the speedometer not shwing ANY speed, I figured it must just be dead. But when the transmission would not shift into first or second, I KNEW something was up, and that something was not ANYTHING good. It turns out that the sound was only coming from the speedometer because the cable was transmitting it. So I thought I might pull the speedometer cable pickup and have a look at it. This is what I saw.





It turns out the sensor had seized, which caused the housing to break under the stress. And that grinding sound was the gear at the bottom grinding against the gear that drives it on the differential. Also, notice that a piece of aluminum broke off of it in the process and fell into the transmission.



I don't know if this small piece of metal is jammed in the shifting mechanism (which is in this area of the case) and jamming it. Or if maybe there is more damage inside, which might have lodged something into the shifting mechanism. In any case, I will probably have to open up the transmission to deal with this.

I also decided to take a look at what happened in the first place. I myself have never really heard anything about what is inside this piece. I only heard that it is somehow related to the speed sensitive power steering on the Integra, and that it is no problem to just leave it as it is on the transmission when swapping. So I was quite surprised at what I found.



It looks like an oil pump. Which is to say that it looks like something that should NOT under any circumstances be run without lubricaion. In my case, the outer gear had seized against the case. What is REALLY amazing about this is that this whole thing ran for something like seven years and over 100000 miles! I guess it is no wonder that it is not generally known that this could be a problem. Hell, how many people drive their swapped Civics for this long before selling anyway?

So what to do? I think the best course of action is to get rid of the thing, and replace it with the speedometer pickup from an ordinary, D-series transmission.



It fits in and works fine. There is nothing to jam up. And even if something DOES go wrong, the gear is plastic, and will harmlessly break up in the transmission before anything metal does. They are also dirt cheap and easy to find. Hell, maybe you mght have one or two laying around.

Now I might just be crying wolf. After all, as I said, nobody really complains about this. And I got seven years and 100000 miles before I had a problem. But given what can possibly happen, the fact that JDM B-series cable transmissions are getting harder to find, and the fact that preventing this problem is just SO cheap and easy, maybe you should consider changing over.

 

if it works

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by loudandlow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it works </TD></TR></TABLE>

The SOHC pickup DOES work. I have been running one in my Civic for years.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The SOHC pickup DOES work. I have been running one in my Civic for years.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah me to,and all the swaps ive done i always re-use the stock piece unless the person wants to use a cluster that needs and electric vss,then i still use a d-series just a 92 civic instead

 

92-up electronic speedo FTW! lol i do have a GSR cluster that needs that though!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NastyHabitzCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">92-up electronic speedo FTW! lol i do have a GSR cluster that needs that though!</TD></TR></TABLE>

There should be no problem with any kind of electronic VSS, such as that found on 1992+ Civics or 1988-1991 CRX SIRs. The problem is with the cable VSS used on 1990-1993 Integras. It would appear that there is a pump in there that probably pumps power steering fluid. And if you don't run power steering, this pump is going to run completely dry. Even if you connect the two nipples with a hose to close it off from the environment, it will still run dry. This appears to be the cause of the failure.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There should be no problem with any kind of electronic VSS, such as that found on 1992+ Civics or 1988-1991 CRX SIRs. The problem is with the cable VSS used on 1990-1993 Integras. It would appear that there is a pump in there that probably pumps power steering fluid. And if you don't run power steering, this pump is going to run completely dry. Even if you connect the two nipples with a hose to close it off from the environment, it will still run dry. This appears to be the cause of the failure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I NEVER knew that..this is good info,to bad you had to figure it out like that.

but i would assume just like a power steering rack you could fill it full of grease and weld the holes shut,,,,but its probably not even worth it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crxnj &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but i would assume just like a power steering rack you could fill it full of grease and weld the holes shut,,,,but its probably not even worth it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Then again, there is nothing in a power steering rack that is going to be constantly spinning at relatively high speed whenever the car is moving.

 

I pour oil into them and loop a line on the fittings. took one apart a couple years ago and have been doing it ever since.

 

Here is what I know (and think) about the subject.

The placement of the gear on the "D" motor speedometer unit is different than the "B" motor one. As I recall, it's not as "deep" in the transmission. It wouldn't mesh with the drive gear (on the differential) correctly. However there are a whole bunch of people that don't seem to have any problem with using it.

I'm running the "B" motor one and filled it with fluid (power steering) and looped the hose back on it's self. This looks like ****, but keeps fluid in it.

Running it dry would be bad, and leaving the hoses off would be worse! If anything happened to get in there it would jam it up as the original poster showed.

Wes

 

wow i never realized how bad that could get....

i always meant to loop those lines, now i'm definitely going to do it!!

 

i've always wondered what those nipples on the vss were.

thanks for the heads up!

i wonder if those gears inside can be removed, so that it wont need oil, or a d-series vss?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wonder if those gears inside can be removed, so that it wont need oil, or a d-series vss?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It looks like you might be able to remove the outer gear. Of course, this is exactly what seized up in my unit. So it's hard to say. However, this alone would probably reduce the daner substantially. Removing the inner gear would not be possible, as there is a pin in the shaft which both keeps the shaft from dropping and drives the gear. But the gear also keeps the pin from coming out of the shaft. Without the gear, the pin will come out.

As for the S-series unit, I did not notice any difference in depth. I will have to take a side by side picture.

 

I've seen them side by side. There is a difference in the gear placement!

However, I've never heard of anybody having a problem.

Wes

 

If this isn't in the Faq already it should be. Good info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComeOnKip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this isn't in the Faq already it should be. Good info </TD></TR></TABLE>
X2 well done. This has now given me the excuse I was looking for to swap to the SiR cluster in my CRX. Any electronic VSS fits in a B-series tranny?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComeOnKip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this isn't in the Faq already it should be. Good info </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

 

Any difference is negligible. What is kind of confusing when you put them side by side for comparion is where to measure from. Basically, you want to line up the bottom of the cutout for the holder on the SOHC VSS with the bottom of where the bolt comes through on the Integra VSS. Do that and you will see there is little difference.

One more thing. I should note that if you get a used VSS from a pick-and-pull type junkyard, they can be quite seized into the trasmission. And f you try to pry them out with a screwdriver, you will likely just break off the aluminum above the slot. For this reason, it is best to try to get one from a transmission that is covered with oil. This way, the oil will have penetrated and loosened it somewhat. Otherwise, use penetrating lubricant, and go look at other cars in the lot while waiting for the oil to loosen the piece.


Modified by StorminMatt at 3:57 AM 11/12/2007

 

I guess I should add an update here. I tried to take my car for a drive today. Of course, I had to start out in third gear. Anyway, I tried numerous times to get the transmission into first or second. But no luck. Then, after about 15 miles of driving, it finally went in. I drove a few miles back home. And it still seems to go into first. Anyway, I figured that after that small piece of aluminm dropped in there and after that VSS gear ground against the gear on the diff for about 10 miles, I should probably drain the oil. Just as I expected, there was LOTS of metal. After all, there is a tooth on the VSS gear that is quite worn down. And although the gear on the differential probably also wore somewhat, it is probably less pronounced since the wear is distributed around the circumference rather than concentrated on one tooth. But it probably also generated lots of speckles. In any case, I will try changing the oil VERY frequently for a while here (perhaps every few days or so) in order to clean out all the metal. I don't know if the transmission is seriously damaged. But hopefuly, it will be okay.