Volunteer/Free Track Time in Midwest
Just want to give everyone a heads-up on the new volunteer program that NASA Midwest and OH/IN have announced. They will give out free track time in exchange for your help in running the events. For those who are tight on budget, or have the free time but the car is not ready, it would be an awesome deal.
The credit you earn never expires and it's transferrable between people. So you could ask your girlfriend or wife to work while you drive for free. Wouldn't that be perfect.
However, the credits are not transferrable outside of Midwest and OH/IN regions, so make sure that you work and redeem the credits within those 2 regions.
Cut and paste from the NASA annoucement, here are the positions they are looking for. Experience NOT required, but must be 18 or older:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Grid: You may have a variety of responsibilities such as directing grid traffic, checking driver wristbands and tech or group stickers, ordering race cars on the grid, etc. You may be issued radio and headset if required. There will be worker breaks and you must have permission of the chief if you need to vacate your spot at any other time.
Hot Pits and Black Flag Station: This is one of the more exciting places to be. The Hot Pits are manned by officials who hold and release cars onto the track. The Black Flag Station communicates with drivers who return to the pits because of some problem, and release them after it has been resolved.
Safety Crew: You will be assigned to work with the Safety Crew to assist disabled cars and their driver on the racetrack. EMTs and Fire Fighters are most welcome!
Timing and Scoring: You will be present in the control tower observing the track activity and documenting timing and scoring for each race practice, qualifying, and competition session for all race groups. Familiarity with computers and radio use is helpful.
Registration: Assist during registration hours of accepting entries, checking for duplicate car numbers, assisting with touring lap signup, handing out worker lunch tickets, directing drivers to classes, and posting results from the competition driving groups. Friendly and outgoing folks needed to greet our entrants and help them find their way.
Saturday night BBQ: Severs, trophy girls, drivers to chase beer and food, etc.
Technical Scrutineers (AKA Tech): Assist during tech hours with making sure drivers in tech lines have completed pre-tech forms, checking that racers have required NASA stickers, checking to make sure drivers have removed all personal belongings from car. Sharp eyes and familiarity with the safety requirements for HPDE entrants will be helpful.
Announcer: Making announcements for drivers to report to grid and other general announcements.
General Help: Given a variety of responsibilities such as making sure coolers are kept full with water, helping with party setup and trophies, helping with touring laps at lunch time, carrying supplies to timing and scoring or grid, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here is the thread for a list of events for NASA Midwest and OH/IN in 2007:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1880489
<u>OH/IN Region:</u>
Apr 20-22: Mid-Ohio
May 19-20: Putnam Park (with Midwest)
Jun 9-10: Grattan
July 13-15: Mid-Ohio
Aug 17-19: Mid-Ohio
Sep 22-23: Nelson Ledges (HPDE Groups Only)
Oct 6-7: Putnam Park
<u>Midwest Region:</u>
Apr 28-29: Iowa Speedway
May 19-20: Putnam Park (With OH/IN)
Jun 30-1: Mid America (With Rocky Mountain)
Jul 21-22: Autobahn (South Track)
Aug 4-5: Road America
Sep 8-9: Gingerman (HPDE Groups Only)
Oct 8: Autobahn (Full Track)
Oct 20-21: Road America
For those who are interested, get in touch with Jeff Diffenderfer at drift@nasamidwest.com ASAP!! They need time to plan and staff the events, and only limited number of volunteers are needed.
Once you touch base with Jeff, and when registration is open (usually 1-2 months before the event date), go to:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/register.html Remember, Midwest and OH/IN regions only.
Click "Register", scroll down and check off the box for "Officials", then pick "Volunteer" (or Trophy girl!) in the drop-down box, click "Add" and it would bypass the payment page. Then they will email you with all the info you need.
Cut and paste from NASA announcement again:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We follow-up with a brief questionnaire that lets you describe your interests and experience. Then you are assigned an event and placed on the mailing list for detailed instructions and schedule just before the event.
Show up at the track bright and early. Pick-up your Volunteer Log Book/volunteer credentials at the Registration Desk, and get your assignment with an introduction to your Chief, who will make sure you are comfortable with your responsibilities. If you need training your Chief will make sure you get it... on the Job!
The Volunteer Log Book is your responsibility to keep and have signed by your Chief or the Chief Steward at the end of each day. If you loose the book, you loose your points.
Redeeming Points:
Then, and here comes the good part, for every two days you work as a Volunteer, the points you accrue in your Volunteer Log Book can be used for one day of free HPDE, TT or Race event track time. When you are ready to redeem points, contact linda@nasamidwest.com and she will explain the process.
You can transfer volunteer credits to another individual who can use them for any NASA driving event in the same region.
Unused points will carry-over from one year to the next. Previous experience is not generally required for Volunteer positions, but you must be 18 or older.
If you have further questions check out the NASA Official Volunteers webpage at
http://www.nasamidwest.com/volunteers.html (page to be up soon) or email Jeff Diffenderfer at drift@nasamidwest.com </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like a good deal. Let's give a a try.
edit: event schedule added
Modified by Wai at 10:32 PM 3/5/2007
The credit you earn never expires and it's transferrable between people. So you could ask your girlfriend or wife to work while you drive for free. Wouldn't that be perfect.
However, the credits are not transferrable outside of Midwest and OH/IN regions, so make sure that you work and redeem the credits within those 2 regions.Cut and paste from the NASA annoucement, here are the positions they are looking for. Experience NOT required, but must be 18 or older:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Grid: You may have a variety of responsibilities such as directing grid traffic, checking driver wristbands and tech or group stickers, ordering race cars on the grid, etc. You may be issued radio and headset if required. There will be worker breaks and you must have permission of the chief if you need to vacate your spot at any other time.
Hot Pits and Black Flag Station: This is one of the more exciting places to be. The Hot Pits are manned by officials who hold and release cars onto the track. The Black Flag Station communicates with drivers who return to the pits because of some problem, and release them after it has been resolved.
Safety Crew: You will be assigned to work with the Safety Crew to assist disabled cars and their driver on the racetrack. EMTs and Fire Fighters are most welcome!
Timing and Scoring: You will be present in the control tower observing the track activity and documenting timing and scoring for each race practice, qualifying, and competition session for all race groups. Familiarity with computers and radio use is helpful.
Registration: Assist during registration hours of accepting entries, checking for duplicate car numbers, assisting with touring lap signup, handing out worker lunch tickets, directing drivers to classes, and posting results from the competition driving groups. Friendly and outgoing folks needed to greet our entrants and help them find their way.
Saturday night BBQ: Severs, trophy girls, drivers to chase beer and food, etc.
Technical Scrutineers (AKA Tech): Assist during tech hours with making sure drivers in tech lines have completed pre-tech forms, checking that racers have required NASA stickers, checking to make sure drivers have removed all personal belongings from car. Sharp eyes and familiarity with the safety requirements for HPDE entrants will be helpful.
Announcer: Making announcements for drivers to report to grid and other general announcements.
General Help: Given a variety of responsibilities such as making sure coolers are kept full with water, helping with party setup and trophies, helping with touring laps at lunch time, carrying supplies to timing and scoring or grid, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Here is the thread for a list of events for NASA Midwest and OH/IN in 2007:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1880489
<u>OH/IN Region:</u>
Apr 20-22: Mid-Ohio
May 19-20: Putnam Park (with Midwest)
Jun 9-10: Grattan
July 13-15: Mid-Ohio
Aug 17-19: Mid-Ohio
Sep 22-23: Nelson Ledges (HPDE Groups Only)
Oct 6-7: Putnam Park
<u>Midwest Region:</u>
Apr 28-29: Iowa Speedway
May 19-20: Putnam Park (With OH/IN)
Jun 30-1: Mid America (With Rocky Mountain)
Jul 21-22: Autobahn (South Track)
Aug 4-5: Road America
Sep 8-9: Gingerman (HPDE Groups Only)
Oct 8: Autobahn (Full Track)
Oct 20-21: Road America
For those who are interested, get in touch with Jeff Diffenderfer at drift@nasamidwest.com ASAP!! They need time to plan and staff the events, and only limited number of volunteers are needed.
Once you touch base with Jeff, and when registration is open (usually 1-2 months before the event date), go to:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/register.html Remember, Midwest and OH/IN regions only.
Click "Register", scroll down and check off the box for "Officials", then pick "Volunteer" (or Trophy girl!) in the drop-down box, click "Add" and it would bypass the payment page. Then they will email you with all the info you need.
Cut and paste from NASA announcement again:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We follow-up with a brief questionnaire that lets you describe your interests and experience. Then you are assigned an event and placed on the mailing list for detailed instructions and schedule just before the event.
Show up at the track bright and early. Pick-up your Volunteer Log Book/volunteer credentials at the Registration Desk, and get your assignment with an introduction to your Chief, who will make sure you are comfortable with your responsibilities. If you need training your Chief will make sure you get it... on the Job!
The Volunteer Log Book is your responsibility to keep and have signed by your Chief or the Chief Steward at the end of each day. If you loose the book, you loose your points.
Redeeming Points:
Then, and here comes the good part, for every two days you work as a Volunteer, the points you accrue in your Volunteer Log Book can be used for one day of free HPDE, TT or Race event track time. When you are ready to redeem points, contact linda@nasamidwest.com and she will explain the process.
You can transfer volunteer credits to another individual who can use them for any NASA driving event in the same region.
Unused points will carry-over from one year to the next. Previous experience is not generally required for Volunteer positions, but you must be 18 or older.
If you have further questions check out the NASA Official Volunteers webpage at
http://www.nasamidwest.com/volunteers.html (page to be up soon) or email Jeff Diffenderfer at drift@nasamidwest.com </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like a good deal. Let's give a a try.
edit: event schedule added
Modified by Wai at 10:32 PM 3/5/2007
I'll be volunteering at Iowa Speedway April 28th and 29th and possibly July 21-22nd at the Autobahn as well.
If any FWD instructors are looking on, I'll be participating in the June 30th and July 1st HPDE at Mid America Motorplex - I'd like to be paired up with fellow FWD runner if possible.
This year's NASA Midwest schedule:
April 28,29 - Iowa Speedway – Newton, IA
May 19, 20 - Putnam Park - Meridian, IN (Crossover with NASA OH/IN)
June 30, 1 – Mid-America Motorplex - Pacific Junction, IA (crossover with NASA Rocky Mountain)
July 21,22 - Autobahn (South Track) – Joliet, IL(Full Track)
August 4, 5 - Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI (HUGE EVENT)
September 8, 9 – Gingerman Raceway – South Haven, MI (HPDE Only)
October 8 - Autobahn (Full Track) – Joliet, IL
October 20, 21 - Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI
If any FWD instructors are looking on, I'll be participating in the June 30th and July 1st HPDE at Mid America Motorplex - I'd like to be paired up with fellow FWD runner if possible.
This year's NASA Midwest schedule:
April 28,29 - Iowa Speedway – Newton, IA
May 19, 20 - Putnam Park - Meridian, IN (Crossover with NASA OH/IN)
June 30, 1 – Mid-America Motorplex - Pacific Junction, IA (crossover with NASA Rocky Mountain)
July 21,22 - Autobahn (South Track) – Joliet, IL(Full Track)
August 4, 5 - Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI (HUGE EVENT)
September 8, 9 – Gingerman Raceway – South Haven, MI (HPDE Only)
October 8 - Autobahn (Full Track) – Joliet, IL
October 20, 21 - Road America - Elkhart Lake, WI
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If any FWD instructors are looking on, I'll be participating in the June 30th and July 1st HPDE at Mid America Motorplex - I'd like to be paired up with fellow FWD runner if possible.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know there are 2 OH/IN instructors who drive ITR's. One of them is Sean (sn= StageOne) and the other one is Kyle (forgot his sn). But I think they are out on the East and less likely to be at MAM.
I know there are 2 OH/IN instructors who drive ITR's. One of them is Sean (sn= StageOne) and the other one is Kyle (forgot his sn). But I think they are out on the East and less likely to be at MAM.
I have to decide if I'm going to do Time Trials with NASA @ IA Speedway or instruct at the BMWCCA event at Motorsports Park Hastings that same weekend.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know there are 2 OH/IN instructors who drive ITR's. One of them is Sean (sn= StageOne) and the other one is Kyle (forgot his sn). But I think they are out on the East and less likely to be at MAM.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Joo forogots about me.. Even thought I only made it to a couple OH/IN events..
Joo forogots about me.. Even thought I only made it to a couple OH/IN events..
well I'm willing to adjust my schedule to do a HPDE or DE or PDX with a skilled FWD instructor.
Let me know where you cats plan to instruct and when.. .
Let me know where you cats plan to instruct and when.. .
Mark Sayers is a OH/IN instructor who tracks his ITR. He would be another one to look for.
Hey Wai, are you racing in 2007 with your Teg? If yes, in H2 or H3? I plan to be at quite a few OH/IN events this year. I plan to be at Mid-Ohio in April, trying out some new go fast parts.
Hey Wai, are you racing in 2007 with your Teg? If yes, in H2 or H3? I plan to be at quite a few OH/IN events this year. I plan to be at Mid-Ohio in April, trying out some new go fast parts.
Trending Topics
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 577HondaPrelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Wai, are you racing in 2007 with your Teg? If yes, in H2 or H3? I plan to be at quite a few OH/IN events this year. I plan to be at Mid-Ohio in April, trying out some new go fast parts.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll be in H2 with the ITR.
I won't be able to make it to Mid Ohio in April.... my first race should be at Putnam in May. Hope to see you and race with you there.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I'll be in H2 with the ITR.

I won't be able to make it to Mid Ohio in April.... my first race should be at Putnam in May. Hope to see you and race with you there.
I thought this was a NASA wide program and not left up to the region. I started doing it this year with NASASE as well as trying to work a few with NASAMA. I know between those two regions things differ. With NASASE they will give you a hotel room for the weekend. You can request an assigment as well. With NASAMA if you are signed off as a flagger they pay something like $75 a day or they will give you additional points towards track time. I am not sure if you can request duties with NASAMA or not.
Those that want more information the best way is to get with the registration director of the region or who ever runs the worker program if they have anyone. Worst case email your regions director.
This really is a great program that NASA offers.
Those that want more information the best way is to get with the registration director of the region or who ever runs the worker program if they have anyone. Worst case email your regions director.
This really is a great program that NASA offers.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Steppin Razor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would the volunteer get to pick their assignment?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes I think so. They understand the fact that the volunteer has his/her own personality that would fit certain position the most. So they allow you to pick what you like most.
But then of course it all depends on availabilty. The best way is to contact Jeff at drift@nasamidwest.com and confirm everything with him.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tmitbyh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought this was a NASA wide program and not left up to the region.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah you're right that it is a NASA wide program. But as you mentioned, each region works differently and AFAIK the credits you earn may not be transferred to different regions. Since each region operates independently, so I can see why they don't allow that.
However, since Midwest and OH/IN are operated by the same group of people, so the credits you earn from those 2 regions can be redeemed for any event from those 2 regions.
Yes I think so. They understand the fact that the volunteer has his/her own personality that would fit certain position the most. So they allow you to pick what you like most.
But then of course it all depends on availabilty. The best way is to contact Jeff at drift@nasamidwest.com and confirm everything with him.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tmitbyh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought this was a NASA wide program and not left up to the region.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah you're right that it is a NASA wide program. But as you mentioned, each region works differently and AFAIK the credits you earn may not be transferred to different regions. Since each region operates independently, so I can see why they don't allow that.
However, since Midwest and OH/IN are operated by the same group of people, so the credits you earn from those 2 regions can be redeemed for any event from those 2 regions.
You are correct about the transfering of credits between regions. My NASASE credits are only good at NASASE events and not other regions.
I just heard they are running the AMA setup at Iowa Speedway for the Nasa races.
They will be running the a portion of the D and all the way around 3 and 4. Expect some killer high speeds but a boring race.. .
The full infeild setup looks a lot more fun.
I'm glad I'm choosing to work the event instead of do the HPDE.
They will be running the a portion of the D and all the way around 3 and 4. Expect some killer high speeds but a boring race.. .
The full infeild setup looks a lot more fun.I'm glad I'm choosing to work the event instead of do the HPDE.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They will be running the a portion of the D and all the way around 3 and 4. Expect some killer high speeds but a boring race.. .
The full infeild setup looks a lot more fun.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sure many of those AI, AIX and GTS guys are cracking their knuckles right now, hoping to see how fast their monsters can go.
For SM guys, they will be like cruising on the highway.
The full infeild setup looks a lot more fun.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sure many of those AI, AIX and GTS guys are cracking their knuckles right now, hoping to see how fast their monsters can go.

For SM guys, they will be like cruising on the highway.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm glad I'm choosing to work the event instead of do the HPDE. </TD></TR></TABLE>
At least it would give you a chance to get thru all six gears Ryan.
At least it would give you a chance to get thru all six gears Ryan.
I doubt I would top out 5th there, 6th gear would be cruisin on my Type S tranny.
With my tire setup I wouldn't want to go over 140 anyways.. .
6th gear takes me to 180(well technically speaking)
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/
Put in RSX-S with 205/45/16s or 205/50/15s and you'll see what I mean.. .
I don't have enough skill or ballz to push it 10/10ths out there on tracks yet.. .
With my tire setup I wouldn't want to go over 140 anyways.. .
6th gear takes me to 180(well technically speaking)
http://www.fatboyraceworks.com/gears/
Put in RSX-S with 205/45/16s or 205/50/15s and you'll see what I mean.. .
I don't have enough skill or ballz to push it 10/10ths out there on tracks yet.. .
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6spdKEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I doubt I would top out 5th there, 6th gear would be cruisin on my Type S tranny.
With my tire setup I wouldn't want to go over 140 anyways.. .
6th gear takes me to 180(well technically speaking)</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL...yeah...I was just messin. I'd probably get lapped every time I hit the oval section in my sohc.
With my tire setup I wouldn't want to go over 140 anyways.. .
6th gear takes me to 180(well technically speaking)</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL...yeah...I was just messin. I'd probably get lapped every time I hit the oval section in my sohc.
Not sure if anyone has looked into it. But here're some additional information.
As mentioned in the quoted annoucement, 2 days of volunteer = one day of free HPDE, TT or Race event track time. To be more specific, the program works in a "credit" system. The volunteer logbook will record the credits that you earn. 4 credits for each day, and 8 credits will get you a free day of driving. So for a typical weekend, it would be:
4 credits Saturday + 4 credits Sunday = 8 credits available for 1 free driving day.
However, you can not earn the credits and redeem them right away at the very same weekend. The credits you are earning are for the following events. But I guess it only matters most on the very first weekend when your credit balance is 0. Once you have banked 8 credits, things are much easier to work around based on the available options.
Let's say you have banked 8 credits, for the following event (Sat+ Sun), you could:
1) drive 1 day free, and work the other day to earn credits toward the next event
2) drive 1 day, and pay for the other day
3) or if you don't like that particular track, or the car is not ready, you can work the whole weekend and end up with more credits to use.
There are many different combinations, and one can actually get through the whole season and drive on several different tracks without paying a penny for entry fee.
As mentioned in the quoted annoucement, 2 days of volunteer = one day of free HPDE, TT or Race event track time. To be more specific, the program works in a "credit" system. The volunteer logbook will record the credits that you earn. 4 credits for each day, and 8 credits will get you a free day of driving. So for a typical weekend, it would be:
4 credits Saturday + 4 credits Sunday = 8 credits available for 1 free driving day.
However, you can not earn the credits and redeem them right away at the very same weekend. The credits you are earning are for the following events. But I guess it only matters most on the very first weekend when your credit balance is 0. Once you have banked 8 credits, things are much easier to work around based on the available options.
Let's say you have banked 8 credits, for the following event (Sat+ Sun), you could:
1) drive 1 day free, and work the other day to earn credits toward the next event
2) drive 1 day, and pay for the other day
3) or if you don't like that particular track, or the car is not ready, you can work the whole weekend and end up with more credits to use.
There are many different combinations, and one can actually get through the whole season and drive on several different tracks without paying a penny for entry fee.
At Grattan this past weekend, I was chatting with the NASA official (Jeff) who runs the volunteer program, and he told me that for the 4 events that have taken place so far, the number of volunteers they had were:
April Mid Ohio, 60 volunteers.
April Iowa Speedway, 25 volunteers.
May Putnam, 45 volunteers.
June Grattan, 40 volunteers.
All those people have earned and spent their free track time and are glad to come back for more. But Jeff says he still didn't have enough yet. He still needs more because of how large the events are getting and it's always a good idea to have spare to accommodate all the last minute changes.
One thing to keep in mind, once you signed up, you don't need to commit 100% to which events that you MUST show up, because who knows what happen a few weeks or months from now. There're always emergencies or issues that keep you from going and they understand that. But at least you are on the list and they know who are interested and might be available.
So here it is, back from the dead and hopefully more people would see it.
April Mid Ohio, 60 volunteers.
April Iowa Speedway, 25 volunteers.
May Putnam, 45 volunteers.
June Grattan, 40 volunteers.
All those people have earned and spent their free track time and are glad to come back for more. But Jeff says he still didn't have enough yet. He still needs more because of how large the events are getting and it's always a good idea to have spare to accommodate all the last minute changes.
One thing to keep in mind, once you signed up, you don't need to commit 100% to which events that you MUST show up, because who knows what happen a few weeks or months from now. There're always emergencies or issues that keep you from going and they understand that. But at least you are on the list and they know who are interested and might be available.
So here it is, back from the dead and hopefully more people would see it.
Any more volunteers for the MAM event?
Event info here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1994726
Event info here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1994726
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