petty$rep

Hey,
Anyway I was bored in class so I was checking out H-T, and I started to think of something.
First off I have always been a more of a N/A than a F.I. person, but i think its time for a change.
Heres what I want to do with my current set up which is: D16Z6 motor w/CAI, 4-2-1 header, high flow cat, 2.25" cat-back, 8.6 lb flywheel, stage 3 clutch, and short shifter.

As you can tell from the light flywheel this was orignally going to be a N/A build.

What I want to do now is make a high-reving turbo car.

I want to put on a small turbo so that boost will kick in very very early and i want to keep my light flywheel is another reason i want boost to kick in at low rpms.

My goal is to 150-160 whp, what size turbo will i need to create that much power and have boost kick in very early. Also with that turbo what rpm do you think i will hit full boost.

I don't want to go over 8 psi b/c i don't want to do anything to the bottom end and plus the engine almost has 170xxx miles on it. I will be upgradding the valvetrain and possibly putting on some light weight pulleys as well.

Could everyone tell me the pros and cons of this kind of set up, high reving small turbo? and give me some advice.

thanx

Sleepy_Red_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petty$rep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey,
Anyway I was bored in class so I was checking out H-T, and I started to think of something.
First off I have always been a more of a N/A than a F.I. person, but i think its time for a change.
Heres what I want to do with my current set up which is: D16Z6 motor w/CAI, 4-2-1 header, high flow cat, 2.25" cat-back, 8.6 lb flywheel, stage 3 clutch, and short shifter.

As you can tell from the light flywheel this was orignally going to be a N/A build.

What I want to do now is make a high-reving turbo car.

I want to put on a small turbo so that boost will kick in very very early and i want to keep my light flywheel is another reason i want boost to kick in at low rpms.

My goal is to 150-160 whp, what size turbo will i need to create that much power and have boost kick in very early. Also with that turbo what rpm do you think i will hit full boost.

I don't want to go over 8 psi b/c i don't want to do anything to the bottom end and plus the engine almost has 170xxx miles on it. I will be upgradding the valvetrain and possibly putting on some light weight pulleys as well.

Could everyone tell me the pros and cons of this kind of set up, high reving small turbo? and give me some advice.

thanx</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm no pro, but eventually your motor will need more air then your turbo can provide and boost will drop significantly

petty$rep

what do you mean it will need more air????????
i only want to boost 6-8 psi

BryanLavo

hope this can help you

http://turbod16.com/viewtopic.php?t=4140

that should give you a good idea (look in your range you want)

b18sihatch

a lighter flywheel will improve rev of the rotation assembly and the lighter rotation mass will help rev of the overall rpm band.

as for spool a lighter flywheel could help your spool as the lighter rotation mass will spin faster in turn spin the motor faster inturn boost earlier however i dont think it will spool so early just from a flywheel

however a smaller piping route with your fmic will help spool times and a turbo that has the correct measurements for th ammount of power/psi you are looking to run ect will improve spool/ larger intake/exhaust piping will also help

JDMRice

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petty$rep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do you mean it will need more air????????
i only want to boost 6-8 psi</TD></TR></TABLE>
greddy kit would be perfect 4 u then

petty$rep

AWSOME thanks for the replies, that is exactly what i wanted to hear

I had been talking to my friend and he said you wanted heavier flywheel and heavier pullys b/c they would hold inertia and keep you in the boost range.

He is right, but i want a small turbo and something that will rev fast, therefore i dont need the heavier flywheel

Also, im new to F.I., should i have to do anything to the compression of the D16Z6 motor in order to boost 6-8 psi

AND WHAT SIZE TURBO WOULD EVERYONE RECOMMEND, i want a small one that will kick in early. Also can you tell me approx. what rpm i will hit full boost with the small turbo. and last question, what would you guys suggest i do with my valvetrain as far as a cam if i do decide to go this route?

b18sihatch

i would have the disgree with the pulley/flywheel boost range theory.

more of a heavier rotation mass will make the rev slower how slow? well it depends on how light the flywheel is

the rev to weight ratio will depend on how much lighter the flywheel is over stock like 20lb stock flywheel to a 7.5lb flywheel you will have a very noticable rev increase.

faster rev will not harm your boost ''range''

however if you had a lighter rotation mass and a longer geared transmission you would stay in boost longer while reving faster

for example, im running the ls transmission (longer gears) with a b16 (dohc vtec) the longer gears will keep me in the boost range longer and keep me in vtec longer too (resulting in a longer & harder boost pull)

with a shorter geared transmission and a lighter flywheel you are increasing the rev and IMO shortening the gears as the faster you rev the faster you redline the faster you shift.

with a boosted application its good to have as long of a gear as possible to stay in boost for longer periods of time.

however i am dipping into many different aspects of a boosted application to get it right you will want to touch on each and every little aspect as possible to have a in your eyes perfect setup, however it just depends on what you want to do

but to say a lighter flywheel/ pullies will keep you in boost range it really depends because it will depend where you boost fulley comes in where you want to shift at, where your vtec kicks in, where you want to redline ect ect ect ect ect ect ect many aspects to take into consideration as to why or whynot you arent in the range you want or what will effect your motors performance with boost

divisionskate

well, being in the same possition, turbo is the way, but for 150-160 with a high(er) than stock reving motor, just go na. its been done before and seams like a fun car. im not going the na route (i think) any more, to many subys to beat at my school. but 9 or 10 thousand rpms seams like a lot of fun, seeing i toped 4th for the first time last night and hit 120mph. here some links to help your build and good luck.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=335078
http://www.d-series.org/forums...21761

AbitAvenger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
however if you had a lighter rotation mass and a longer geared transmission you would stay in boost longer while reving faster

for example, im running the ls transmission (longer gears) with a b16 (dohc vtec) the longer gears will keep me in the boost range longer and keep me in vtec longer too (resulting in a longer & harder boost pull)
</TD></TR></TABLE>i call bs on being a "harder" pull with a longer geared transmission are you retarded? have you ever swapped trannys before and actually ran at the track?

4rc-fed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
with a boosted application its good to have as long of a gear as possible to stay in boost for longer periods of time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lies

petty$rep

like i said, i've always been N/A, and we all know its possible to get 150whp out of a n/a D-series, BUT ITS A LOT OF WORK. Anyways, I've have always been a fan of a shorter geared tranny of a n/a build, that may change once i go boost, but i doubt it since im only shooting for AT MOST 180 whp. FYI i have a 1995 Ex tranny in my car right now.

What i was saying earlier about the rotational mass is YES, the engine does rev up faster, but it also slows down faster b/c there is less weight (inertia).

the reason i want the engine to rev fast is to get me into boost range fast and i want it to rev high in order to keep me in boost range for the longest period of time poss.

Now for my other questions about turbo size, what rpm will boost kick in at, at what valvetrain components to upgrade to.

Thank you everyone for the advice, links, and input. It has all been very helpful, keep it coming.

also will i need to adjust compression at all

BryanLavo

ive done some research on turbos before but correct me if im wrong...

the higher the rev limit the bigger of a turbo your gonna want. say you had a small turbo on your car like off of a ford probe, you will most likely dropping your hp after a certin point in your rpms b/c instead of making power you lose power b/c the turbo wasnt designed for that high of a rev. then you have to go for a bigger turbo so the real question is what rpm are you looking for if you want 150-160 whp? if your shooting for 150-160 whp i wouldnt worry about upping your rpms, b/c its not worth it.

WestSideDave

petty$rep

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanLavo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive done some research on turbos before but correct me if im wrong...

the higher the rev limit the bigger of a turbo your gonna want. say you had a small turbo on your car like off of a ford probe, you will most likely dropping your hp after a certin point in your rpms b/c instead of making power you lose power b/c the turbo wasnt designed for that high of a rev. then you have to go for a bigger turbo so the real question is what rpm are you looking for if you want 150-160 whp? if your shooting for 150-160 whp i wouldnt worry about upping your rpms, b/c its not worth it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point. Well with that info im gonna say I only want to rev to maybe 7500 rpms. my cars redline is 7200 rpms stock so that is only 300 rpms over stock. not bad??

now to answer the other question, i want boost to kick in very early lets say 3k rpms or maybe 2700 rpms. So now what size turbo would you guys recommend and what cam??

petty$rep

thats also a good point about not worring about my upper rpms since i only want to make 150-160 whp. after all i do have vtec and with a good tune i'm sure things would work out.

and if i ever do need those upper rpms i could just build the engine and get a bigger turbo, or maybe a small shot of nitrous

could someone plz tell me a small turbo that will meet my needs

thanx for all the help so far

broketuner-Sol_Si

I think a t3 with .42/.48 or the greddy tdo4(that comes in the kit for 92-95 EXs) would both be good turbos for your goals.

petty$rep

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by broketuner-sol_si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think a t3 with .42/.48 or the greddy tdo4(that comes in the kit for 92-95 EXs) would both be good turbos for your goals. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks, i don't know much about tubo sizes, but i heard somthing about a t3 with .25. What is you opinion about that???

broketuner-Sol_Si

never heard of it. you should get something small enough so it'll spool nice and early(say round 2000ish whic either of those turbo will do) but not something too small that it kills the topend power....never heard of a .25 but I think that would be too small, unless of course you meant a t25 turbo in which case would be ok but I think the garrett or greddy turbo would be better suited for a cleaner/better power curve....I'm going for a setup similar to yours in my del sol si(d16z6) and I'll be using the greddy turbo with it...I'm aiming for anything over 160whp for stage 1(injectors, IC, turbo and tuning).....just enough to beat my old NA B16 setup. go into this thread...it should help you out at least a little bit:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1643764

blackeg

you really dont want something to spool 2500, you wont be able to drive up hills without going into boost, and it gets annoying after a while. at least it did for me.

i used to have a t3 60 trim with a .48 exhaust housing on a d16z6. i used to see my 6-7 psi by around 3500, and it pulled nice to 7400.

here's what you do...:
buy aftermarket headstuds, youll need them because turbo d heads like to lift
if u want a cam, zex 59300. if you want to rev over 7200 then get the springs and retainers too. id probably rev to 7500-7600 max with that on a stock boost block.
get a 3" downpipe and exhaust, it will help spool and power.

get a good tune, it makes a world of difference.

good luck.

blaze the chemi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
with a boosted application its good to have as long of a gear as possible to stay in boost for longer periods of time.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
WTF dude. Keeping your foot smashed to the pedal to the floor will keep you in boost for longer periods of time.

The D16Z6 came with a good tranny. Get a good tune and mabey a Garrett GT25 or GT28 would be good for your application. It'll give you ample boost in low RPM's and has the breathing capability up to the RPM's you should go to. No more than 7500 RPM's even when built tough. Your stroke to rod ratio is low.

GET A GOOD TUNE.

Casey

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
for example, im running the ls transmission (longer gears) with a b16 (dohc vtec) the longer gears will keep me in the boost range longer and keep me in vtec longer too (resulting in a longer & harder boost pull)

with a shorter geared transmission and a lighter flywheel you are increasing the rev and IMO shortening the gears as the faster you rev the faster you redline the faster you shift.

with a boosted application its good to have as long of a gear as possible to stay in boost for longer periods of time.

however i am dipping into many different aspects of a boosted application to get it right you will want to touch on each and every little aspect as possible to have a in your eyes perfect setup, however it just depends on what you want to do

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i am pretty sure i just got dumber reading this.

traction issues asside, a shorter geared tranny will be faster on a turbo car. i dont feel like explaining it, because there are multiple topics about it, and theres no point in reiterating whats been said a million times.

as far as wanting 150-160whp, id just go with a dsm turbo. my friend had a 1g auto turbo (12b) i believe, on a kit he did with a bunch of free/cheap parts given to him, and it was half or less the cost of a greddy kit, and spooled up a whole lot faster

Forty04

I agree with casey, piecing your own kit together starting with a DSM turbo would be the way to go for your target power range. I just put a t25 on my d16y8 and am pushing 8psi. Haven't had a chance to get her on a dyno yet, but the difference in torque is quite significant. Makes for one hell of a fun DD let me tell ya

b18sihatch

ok sorry for your misunderstanding, i always talk in a highway race situation becuase that is hwat im building my car for... ok so you are going to tell me for a highway race you want short gears?

for a track situation you want as short as possible, however traction issues become something to deal with

AbitAvenger

i've got a 14b and it spools fast as hell and holds til redline