FastLife617

Whats up guys quick question have any of you used Redline 40 wt motor Oil .. on a B series ??

ke98248

iTrader: (1)

go with Castrol GTX

FastLife617

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ke98248 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go with Castrol GTX</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i know thats a great oil too is just i was wondering if its safe to run 40 wt oil

bmoua

i'd stick with 5w30...

FastLife617

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bmoua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd stick with 5w30...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use Fully synthatic Mobil 1 5w30 for my car but i was wondering if its safe to run The Redline 40wt oil because my buddy car burns alot of oil at the track because of having it at High RPM's trough out the whole time so this guy suggested To use the 40 wt oil because his ITR had the same issue and the 40 wt solved his problem

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FastLife617 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I use Fully synthatic Mobil 1 5w30 for my car but i was wondering if its safe to run The Redline 40wt oil because my buddy car burns alot of oil at the track because of having it at High RPM's trough out the whole time so this guy suggested To use the 40 wt oil because his ITR had the same issue and the 40 wt solved his problem</TD></TR></TABLE>

it's a temporary fix. 40wt is WAYY thick. The reason your buddy's ITR stopped burning oil is because the molecules in 40wt are bigger, and 40wt wont fit into small cracks and crevices that leak oil to the combustion chamber. The downside is that all the bearing surfaces get starved since the oil is too thick to reach them. Eventually those will wear out and have enough clearance for 40wt to "fit" between them. Then it will start burning 40wt....what's next? gear oil? Plus your engine will have horrible tolerences soon enough.

Just ONE of the reasons Honda recommends 5w30: It fits between bearing surfaces, and piston rings and cylinder walls, etc. Engineers usually have big brains. It's best to just listen to them unless there's a very unique situation.

Burning oil at high RPMs isnt abnormal...and it's not THAT bad. Just think about it. at 6000RPM your piston is going top to bottom at 100times a second. At 9K, its 150 times per second. If you burn even a few drops of oil, it will make a significant amount of smoke. Plus, some B series have piston sprayers, which will make oil consumption even worse.

On top of all of that, your engine will be fighting thru 40wt oil...causing less power delivery and gas mileage. It's kinda like rowing thru water vs. rowing thru mud.

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FastLife617 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I use Fully synthatic Mobil 1 5w30 for my car but i was wondering if its safe to run The Redline 40wt oil because my buddy car burns alot of oil at the track because of having it at High RPM's trough out the whole time so this guy suggested To use the 40 wt oil because his ITR had the same issue and the 40 wt solved his problem</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok simple

all those oils SUCK

torco SR-? all the way!

FastLife617

Thanks Alot B serious yeah i just wanted a more knowledgeable opinion on it before we do anything but it seems it will do alot more harm then good in the long run is just that the motor is starting to burn plenty of oil at the end about half a quart sometimes to quart and a half after a few days oh hard reeving and normal driving

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok simple

all those oils SUCK

torco SR-? all the way! </TD></TR></TABLE>

those oils suck? well does torco make claims that when subjected to a combustion chamber, their oil will NOT burn? Cuz burning oil in a combustion chamber really doesn't have much to do with viscosity and quality. Once it's in there, Mobil1, Torco, and whatever other oil you buy will burn in a combustion chamber. The trick is to keep oil OUT of the combustion chamber. Which, like i said before at 100hz or 150hz is sometimes not possible especially with a sprayer spraying oil towards the hot side of the piston.

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

those oils suck? well does torco make claims that when subjected to a combustion chamber, their oil will NOT burn? Cuz burning oil in a combustion chamber really doesn't have much to do with viscosity and quality. Once it's in there, Mobil1, Torco, and whatever other oil you buy will burn in a combustion chamber. The trick is to keep oil OUT of the combustion chamber. Which, like i said before at 100hz or 150hz is sometimes not possible especially with a sprayer spraying oil towards the hot side of the piston.</TD></TR></TABLE>

all research has been done and is track proven!

as for my personal experience i have been very happy with it so far and as for oil burning

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

all research has been done and is track proven!

as for my personal experience i have been very happy with it so far and as for oil burning </TD></TR></TABLE>

track proven not to burn in a combustion chamber? riiiight

I know that certain oils will have a higher vaporization point ...so they wont vaporize in the crank case as fast, so you save on oil there....but dude once it's in the combustion chamber, it's going to burn no matter what oil you're using.

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

track proven not to burn in a combustion chamber? riiiight

I know that certain oils will have a higher vaporization point ...so they wont vaporize in the crank case as fast, so you save on oil there....but dude once it's in the combustion chamber, it's going to burn no matter what oil you're using.</TD></TR></TABLE>

when i said track proven i meant that if it is good enough for the pro's it's damn good enough for ME!


i did not need a chemical/engine lecture from you especially when that’s not what i was driving at!

BJA86

guy i bought my 99 si used 10 30 mobil one synthetic i hear u guys saying 5 30? should i switch? and i heard seomthing about mobil one not being fully synthetic or something like that?

THC07

Too many oil question and confusion.
there are lots of differnt choices when it comes to oil, lots of differnt car variables.
search and learn alittle before you listen to what they are using for there motors.
think this is buzzbombs words, i dunno who wrote it.


The function of motor oil: It must lubricate: Especially important at start up, oil must be quickly and easily pumped through the engine to provide adequate lubrication. It must protect: A film forms in between moving parts to keep them from making contact is the obvious way it protects. But it also protects by providing corrosion resistance inside the engine. Oxidation of the oil and contamination via condensation and combustion by-products cause acids to form. Motor oil is made to combat these acids. It must clean: Deposits that form in the engine reduces its running efficiency. An oils job is to keep these deposits from forming. Any particle larger than 5 to 20 microns can cause damage to an engine. Although filtration plays a big role in this, the oil has to play its parts by keeping deposits from forming and suspending them until they can be filtered out. It must cool: Motor oil does the majority of cooling in your engine, the radiator does most of its cooling in the upper portion of the engine. The bottom end only relies on the oil to do its cooling. This is why the proper weight is important. Some think that if a 30 weight is good, then a 50 weight is better. Not so. If your vehicle was not designed to run 50 weight, then using a higher viscosity may not cause more wear, but will likely cause an increase in temperature, which is not desired.
How Petroleum oil is made: Desalting - Aids in the refining process , Partial Vaporization - Separates the crude of different boiling points. The highest is used for basestocks , Vacuum Distillation - Separates the oil into different weights, Solvent Extraction - Up to 80% of containments are removed with this process, De-waxing - Wax is removed to aid in low temperature fluidity Non Synthetic Synthetics: There is a refining process called hydrocracking where a petroleum oil is refined on a molecular level to the point where it can be leagally sold as a synthetic. Though it is a high quality petroleum oil, it is still petroleum and not a true synthetic. How Synthetic oil is made: I can't really tell you how it is made since it is a chemical process. What I can tell you is that it is not refined like crude oil, but it is manufactured. It is pure with no contaminates and are made up of uniformly sized molecules. Oil additives and their function: Pour Point Depressants - Aids in low temperature fluidity, Viscosity Index Improvers - Aids oil to resist high temperature viscosity breakdown, Detergents and Dispersants - Cleans the engine and resists sludge buildup, Anti Foaming Agents - Self explanatory, Oxidation and Corrosion Inhibitors - Self explanatory, Anti Wear Agents - Minimizes wear if metal to metal contact occurs.
Multi viscosities, the problems with them, and what the "w" stands for in 10w30: Multi-viscosity oils such as 0w30, 5w30, 10w30, and so on are oils which are designed for applications where temperature changes may be significant. Most people believe that a 5w30oil is good for cold weather use because it is a "5 weight" oil in cold temps and a "30 weight" oil at high temps. On the surface this might seem to make a certain amount of sense. Naturally, a "5 weight oil" would flow better than a "30 weight" oil. The first number (the "5" in 5w30) is only a RELATIVE number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an engine to turn over at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. Besides, if you thought about it for a second, it's not logical to think that an oil can be thinner when it is cold and thicker when it is hot. What liquid do you know of that thins out as it gets colder? Bet you can't come up with one. The fact of the matter is that the oil gets THICKER as the temperature drops. However a 5w30 oil will be less thick and flow better than a 10w30. When the oil heats up to operating temperatures, all oils in the same weight classification, 0w30, 5w30, and 10w30 oils will perform the exactly the same because they are all 30 weight oils. Think of the "w"as a "winter" rating. Multi-viscosity oil provide a great deal more flexibility to protect an engine over a wider temperature range than monograde oils do. Obviously, this should be considered a good thing. However, there is a drawback to multi-viscosity. When manufactured from a petroleum basestock, they tend to shear back easily. You see, the waxy contaminants within petroleum basestocks crystallize in cold temps causing them to thicken and become hard to pump. So, in order to allow for good flow characteristics at low temps a very thin basestock must be used in conjunction with pour point depressant additives. For instance, let's look at a 5w30 oil. In order to flow well enough to meet the 5w classification, a super thin basestock is used such as a 20 weight oil. Then that basestock would be combined with pour point depressant additives. But in order to meet the 30 weight classification, the oil is "built up" using the long chain, high-molecular weight polymers called Viscosity Improvers. If you can already guess, as the oil ages, the Viscosity Improvers get used up and the oil shears itself back to its original 20 weight causing easier burn off leading to deposits, oil consumption and less protection.The good news is, not all multi viscosity oils shear back so easily. Synthetic oils contain no waxy contaminants to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. This allows the basestock to be a true 30 weight oil with good cold weather characteristics. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary AND higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "w" requirements for pump-ability. The result is that very little shearing occurs within synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with VI improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing High Temperature/High Shear test results between petroleum and synthetic.
API testing and what they mean: Kinematic Viscosity @ 40 degrees and 100 degrees C - Used for determining an oils viscosity, Viscosity Index - Refers to an oils ability to maintain a consistent viscosity over a wide temperature range. A good number to look for is 140, Cold Crank Simulator - An oil is cooled and a shaft is turned in it to measure the “startability” of the oil. The lower the score the better., Mini Rotary Viscometer - A companion to the CCS test, this test measures pump-ability., Borderline Pumping Temperature - The lowest temperature that an oil will adequately flow through your engine to provide the necessary lubrication and protection, Flash Point - The temperature at which the oil vaporizes enough for the gas to become momentarily flammable in the presence of a small flame. Choose an oil with at least 420 degrees F rating, . Fire Point - The temperature at which the oil vaporizes enough for the gas to sustain a flame as opposed to a momentary one. Choose an oil with at least 450 degrees F rating., Total Base Number (TBN) - This is a very important one here. This tells you the oils ability to combat corrosive conditions in the oil. The API minimum is 5, most petroleum oils are 5 to 8 and most synthetics are 8-14., High Temperature / High Shear (HT/HS) - This simulates shear conditions in an engine. Different viscosities have different requirements. 30 weight oils has a minimum requirement of 2.9cP, so a higher number is better here.,
NOACK Volatility Test - Also one of the more important test when choosing oil. The oil is heated to almost 500 degrees F for a period of one hour. The final score reflects the percentage of weight loss. The lower number the better. API maximum allowed evaporation percentage is 15%.4 Ball Wear Test – This method cover a procedure for making a preliminary evaluation of the anti-wear properties of fluid lubricants in sliding contact. Smaller the number the better. There are a couple of more, but these are the most common and most important. Download and read "The Motor Oil Bible" for the rest.
Why petroleum oil is inadequate:
PRONE TO BREAK DOWN:
Some of the chemicals in conventional petroleum lubricants break down at temperatures well within the normal operating temperature range of your engine. Others are prone to break down in these relatively mile temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway, especially since oxygen is one of the contaminants within petroleum basestocks.
When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated with varnish, deposits and sludge. in addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and maintains little heat transfer ability.
POOR COLD TEMPERATURE STARTS:
As caused by the waxes crystallizing in the oil.
MARGINAL HEAT CONTROL:
As the oil flows through your vehicles lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy molecules work like a blanket around hot components.

Why synthetic oil is superior:
EXTENDED OIL DRAINS:
Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down. Moreover, because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction. The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress on the lube. HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF BASESTOCK:
Less additives are needed so you get a higher percentage of basestock ADDITIVE USED UP MORE SLOWLY
Because you are starting with a more stable oil, the protecting additives in the oil are used more slowly. EXCELLENT HEAT TOLERANCE
This goes back to the molecules in synthetic oil being uniform in size. An average Flash Point of several major brands of petroleum oil was 414 degrees F. An average Flash Point of several major brands of synthetic oil was 453 degrees F. GREATER FILM STRENGTH:
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 500% to 1000% higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity. In fact, believe it or not, even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, a 0w30, or 5w30 synthetic oil will likely have a higher film strength then a 15w40 or 20w50 petroleum oil. ENGINE DEPOSIT REDUCTION:
BETTER COLD TEMPERATURE FLUIDITY: Question / Answer Section: Q: Is there compatibility issues between petroleum and synthetic?
A: None Q: When is too early to switch?
A: Unless the car came with synthetic from the factory, wait until 3,000 miles. Q: When is too late to switch?
A: There isn't a definite answer to this, but generally over 10 years old and over 100,000 miles. Though many have successfully switched on cars with many more miles with no problems. A guess is that if 100 people switch their car over to synthetic and 5 people have leaks, where the other 95 do not, you are going to hear about the 5 people complain about it while the 95 successful people just go about their business Q: Will oil pressure drop?
A: A small drop in oil pressure is typical because the oil is flowing easier. This is normal. Q: Do I need special filtration?
A: You don't NEED special filtration, but a high efficiency filter is also as important as good oil. My oil is dark, should I change it?
This is a huge misconception that needs to be addressed. The fact that your oil is dark does not in any way mean your oil is ready for a change. A large percentage of the contaminants in your oil is 1 micron or smaller. Only particles 5 and up cause damage. The smaller ones are safely suspended in the oil. A diesel trucks oil turns black in the first few hours of operation, yet the oil is used for many thousands of miles. Only an oil analysis can tell you weather or not your oil is still good or if it needs to be changed. * It is important to note that this applies more to synthetic oil. I personally wouldn't run a petroleum oil over 3,000 miles or 3 months because of the breakdown properties. Mobil 1 oils are likely to go 10,000 or 6 months though they make no mention as to how long it can really go, and I doubt there is much difference between their regular synthetic and there new extended drain oils they are marketing. Amsoil makes a 7,500 or 6 month oil, as well as a 25,000 or 1 year oil that is guaranteed. There is SOOOO much more information in "The Motor Oil Bible" It touches the subject of air filtration, oil filtration, and bypass oil filtration that I am not including here. It also talks about motor oil for motorcycles. Again, it is worth the time to download and read

Padawan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok simple

all those oils SUCK

torco SR-? all the way! </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they don't, and it's absolutist statements like these that help ruin oil discussion threads. Just because you prefer a particular brand does not mean that everything else on the market is substandard, and costing $7.50 - $14.00 per bottle doesn't automatically make an oil superior.

Padawan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BJA86 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">guy i bought my 99 si used 10 30 mobil one synthetic i hear u guys saying 5 30? should i switch? and i heard seomthing about mobil one not being fully synthetic or something like that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

10W-30 is okay as long as it is relatively warm out (though 5W-30 is still preferred). Mobil 1 is fine, as is any quality synthetic or conventional motor oil that meets Honda's requirements. You don't have to spend a ton of money on exotic oils to have a long-lasting engine.

BJA86

awesome thanks padawan

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No, they don't, and it's absolutist statements like these that help ruin oil discussion threads. Just because you prefer a particular brand does not mean that everything else on the market is substandard, and costing $7.50 - $14.00 per bottle doesn't automatically make an oil superior.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

10W-30 is okay as long as it is relatively warm out (though 5W-30 is still preferred). Mobil 1 is fine, as is any quality synthetic or conventional motor oil that meets Honda's requirements. You don't have to spend a ton of money on exotic oils to have a long-lasting engine. </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol

well respect too your statement of not ruining a thread PM'd

Padawan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> lol

well respect too your statement of not ruining a thread PM'd</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm happy to see that you got a personal laugh from my statements, but I can assure you that each of them is completely accurate.

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm happy to see that you got a personal laugh from my statements, but I can assure you that each of them is completely accurate. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Touché

As for your validity pm’d

Libertariat

People drove 200k+ on honda's before synthetic oil was ever invented, or even the new oils with added detergents.

Eran

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by richard7968 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok simple

all those oils SUCK

torco SR-? all the way! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Would you care to explain to me why Torco oil is better on a molecular level than Mobil, or Castrol, or Redline, or Royal Purple, or anything else that millions of vehicles around the world use daily?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Would you care to explain to me why Torco oil is better on a molecular level than Mobil, or Castrol, or Redline, or Royal Purple, or anything else that millions of vehicles around the world use daily?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no. he doesn't believe in science, remember?

Syndacate

Iono what ur talking about w/ the molecule size there, champ.

My dad ran 15w50 (Mobile 1) in the benz 300E ever since he bought and ever since I took it until the trans crapped out at 360k miles. Changed it every 3k w/ 15w50 - ALWAYS. So by ur means of the molecules not lubricating properly, that engine shoulda took a **** a long time ago?

I agree with you on the fact that lighter weight oil will easier blow by and u'll burn it - but as far as insufficient engine lube at a higher weight? I don't know if I agree that if the engine's allowed proper warm-up temperatures.

EDIT:
That was @ u B Serious - not saying ur wrong - just saying I don't necessarily agree with you in what seems to u saying that heavier weight is insufficient in terms of lubricant when actually it's better b/c it's more viscous.

Richard...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People drove 200k+ on honda's before synthetic oil was ever invented, or even the new oils with added detergents.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same could be said for many things if that’s the position you want too take then nothing would ever be improved upon