im thinking about learning autocad for simple car parts.
i already am pretty knowledgable in computers 3d etc.
so hopefully its not TOO much different.
just wondering if i do all the work and design the part in cad.
is it really expensive to prototype or make the first production?
i just dontknow anything about it and id like to learn. i dont really want to learn the machining side of it. more the programming/designing. but id just like an idea of costs cause if i cant even afford to prototype 1 piece ill never learn

 

hey bro, hook me up with cad

 

From my experience prototyping (outsourcing 3D CAD models to machine shops) at work, it is very expensive. Prototyping of any sort is usually where your per unit cost is driven higher (to compensate for the upfront fees of getting the right design).

 

i'm a designer.

i bill for the following:

conceptual
cad
FEA
proof/engineering
prototype


rates depend on the job and the client, but there are a LOT of factors involved in the cost. i charge between $100-$225/hr.

 

no.. what im saying is. if i do the cad design..
is there like a setup for the machine so it knows how and what to do.
or do they just take my cad design. stick a chunk of metal in the machine and it does all the work..
im not talking about paying someone to design or do any designing.. just to run the machine and pay for costs of metal and what not.
i really dont know the process of cnc'ing

 

It is possible to do the design work yourself and outsource the manufacturing but depending on the part, prototypes can get very expensive due to tooling costs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drunknbass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no.. what im saying is. if i do the cad design..
is there like a setup for the machine so it knows how and what to do.
or do they just take my cad design. stick a chunk of metal in the machine and it does all the work..
im not talking about paying someone to design or do any designing.. just to run the machine and pay for costs of metal and what not.
i really dont know the process of cnc'ing</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you have a part design, you'll need a CNC machinest to write the code into the actual CNC machine. Very time consuming and precise. Read - Expensive.

Unless the part just absolutely has to be made by CNC, I would suggest pure fab.

 

damn i was hoping to design some adjustable rear lcas. and some intake head flages. doesnt look like ill be able to if its that expensive to set the machines up..

 

Take an NC class at a technical school near you. While there, buy the student version of Autocad.

Make good friends with the instructor (kiss butt as required) so that once you have graduated, he will still let you use the machine.

Wes

 

About 350 for my guy to proto type a head flange and if you do 10 it drops to 100 a piece.

Yes on older CNC machins you had to put in all the code, on newere ones you can just transfer the drawing file.

Tooling also can get expensive


Modified by eLusive ek4 at 8:06 AM 8/13/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eLusive ek4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes on older CNC machins you had to put in all the code, on newere ones you can just transfer the drawing file.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Didn't know that about the new ones. Excellent.

 

Simple and a lot of complex parts can be made manually with just a bridgeport and about an hour (depending on what you're making). CAD and other 2 or 3-d schematics are quite easy to do, ONCE you get your mind around it, how it works, where everything is, etc... so get ready for a lot of learning and trial and error.

Rich

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Goullish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have a part design, you'll need a CNC machinest to write the code into the actual CNC machine. Very time consuming and precise. Read - Expensive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

unless you use a 3D modeling package (such as mastercam etc) which generate NC files. Take the g code to the CNC mill or lathe, have the tooling set up, and watch it run.

Things like head flanges (or any other simple 2D parts) can be cut on 3 axis CNC routers, which should be cheaper in labour rates, as the setup isn't as complex.

 

I use solid edge to design parts, and Edgecam to generate the code. We only have CNC lathes, but they are 5T's and 6T's and doind arc's manually is damn near impossible. Edgecam reads right from solid edge, so you can work with your solid, with mastercam its not the same, I think you are required to do alot of work on the solid to make it work.

 

Hmmm. Interesting topic.

I have been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm an architect with more than 10 years of experience and I can model ANYTHING in AutoCAD. I have actually toyed with the idea of taking a few designs to a local machine shop to have them fabricated from my drawings and it would be great if they could input it to a CNC machine directly from a CAD solid model.

Has anyone had any luck doing this?

Oh, and to answer your question, AutoCAD has a fairly low learning curve and if you can get a student version its pretty cheap or even free if you are a registered student. It's not the best modeling program out there but i've been using it forever and its the easiest for me to use. I'm getting too F'in old to learn new software

Mike

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92sleepR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, and to answer your question, AutoCAD has a fairly low learning curve and if you can get a student version its pretty cheap or even free if you are a registered student. It's not the best modeling program out there but i've been using it forever and its the easiest for me to use. I'm getting too F'in old to learn new software

Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

People still draw in 2D?

I'd just go right into 3D. With inventor or solidworks you make your solid 3D model and THEN make your 2D sketches and i'm sure you can save in a 'cnc' happy format. The great thing is that if you edit your 2D drawing OR 3D solid the they both update on the fly to your changes. For me it's easier to design in 3D right from the start - and it's not nearly as hard as people might think! I say take a course and surprise yourself!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92sleepR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmmm. Interesting topic.

I have been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm an architect with more than 10 years of experience and I can model ANYTHING in AutoCAD. I have actually toyed with the idea of taking a few designs to a local machine shop to have them fabricated from my drawings and it would be great if they could input it to a CNC machine directly from a CAD solid model.

Has anyone had any luck doing this?
Mike</TD></TR></TABLE>

My uncle does this. He has my brother do the drawings and he somehow uploads the CAD file directly into the CNC computer. Crazy ****.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by skunked &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My uncle does this. He has my brother do the drawings and he somehow uploads the CAD file directly into the CNC computer. Crazy ****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a bit more to it than that, but the software has come a long way in recent years. The CNC operator/programmer still has to use his own discretion as far as how to set up the machine and which order to perform the operations in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jazzman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

There's a bit more to it than that, but the software has come a long way in recent years. The CNC operator/programmer still has to use his own discretion as far as how to set up the machine and which order to perform the operations in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Of course, It's not like burning a CD. I have seen him destroy the head on his CNC because of a simple mathematical error.

 

Yeah, you can always uckup.
Personally tried autocad, solidworks, etc etc
Still prefer solid edge though, I can draw lightning fast in that, and can do just about anything now... Also a student version available for free!

 

I dont have that many hours of nc programming under my belt, But i would suggest learning some G-code. It will give you more of an understaing of what cad is spitting out. I know there is this program that takes cad files and turnes it to code, but i forgot what its called. -=\

 

AutoCAD is just OK for 3d. It works, but it's unconventional at best. I'd try to learn something like solidworks.

Here's a prototype alternative. Use their CAD software and they price it online. Pretty cool:

http://www.eMachineShop.com

 

I highly recommend Pro/Engineer. Although it has a fairly steep learning curve compared to say Solidworks or Ironcad, the FEA software (Pro/Mechanica) is by far the best on the market and you can get the student version fairly cheap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b6t &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

unless you use a 3D modeling package (such as mastercam etc) which generate NC files. Take the g code to the CNC mill or lathe, have the tooling set up, and watch it run.

Things like head flanges (or any other simple 2D parts) can be cut on 3 axis CNC routers, which should be cheaper in labour rates, as the setup isn't as complex.</TD></TR></TABLE>


You sound like a Humber College student.


To the original poster... it takes a ****** long time to design a part yourself. And since you said something about control arms and such, you HAVE to make sure that it is safe. You cant just machine a part and expect it to be ok. My advice to you is to take a nc / cnc course and it should be able to teach you the basics. You will understand that in order to design a part, you have to have some experience with the actual machine itself and all the g-codes. Like b6t said, MasterCam is a program that generates the g-codes for the cnc machine. And you can also just import the cad drawing into mastercam. So it is possible to produce your own parts but I don't think that the cost of material is what you're going to be worried about.... the machines are $$$$$$$$$$$$$

good luck anyway

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kim_2_da_chee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You sound like a Humber College student. </TD></TR></TABLE>

bah, it's 3+ years of working for a local cnc router manufacturer. I STILL need to get my *** back to school.