BoostFlows fab and welding work
OG Fabricator
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
i love reading what bells has to say......... ive never used 309 on my ms-ss (because my local welding shop doenst carry it) ive always used 308 for every thing that ss-ss and ms-ss. that being said are there any issue with using the 308 on mild to stainless bells?
mike
mike
Number one is that 309 is "overalloyed" for just this purpose. It is designed to be welded to low-alloy steels with stainless steels and have the weldement achieve a very similar metal to the stainless base metal. The main reason is to avoid martensite formation, and the other is to avoid excessive corrosion.
304/308/316 do not like to be diluted, or have the alloy amounts reduced drastically.
When you do this (welding to low-alloy or mild steels), the metal tends to form some martensite upon cooling. This will reduce the ductility, and increase the tendency to crack.
This is why it is so important not to weld mild steel with stainless filler metals just because they look nicer.
I could go into ferrite numbers, special nickel filler metals, and carbon content, but this is enough hi-jacking. Stick to 309. There are procedures in place for ms-ss, and none include 308 just because it will not pass the bend test due to martensite formation.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Yes. Several in fact.
Number one is that 309 is "overalloyed" for just this purpose. It is designed to be welded to low-alloy steels with stainless steels and have the weldement achieve a very similar metal to the stainless base metal. The main reason is to avoid martensite formation, and the other is to avoid excessive corrosion.
304/308/316 do not like to be diluted, or have the alloy amounts reduced drastically.
When you do this (welding to low-alloy or mild steels), the metal tends to form some martensite upon cooling. This will reduce the ductility, and increase the tendency to crack.
This is why it is so important not to weld mild steel with stainless filler metals just because they look nicer.
I could go into ferrite numbers, special nickel filler metals, and carbon content, but this is enough hi-jacking. Stick to 309. There are procedures in place for ms-ss, and none include 308 just because it will not pass the bend test due to martensite formation.
Number one is that 309 is "overalloyed" for just this purpose. It is designed to be welded to low-alloy steels with stainless steels and have the weldement achieve a very similar metal to the stainless base metal. The main reason is to avoid martensite formation, and the other is to avoid excessive corrosion.
304/308/316 do not like to be diluted, or have the alloy amounts reduced drastically.
When you do this (welding to low-alloy or mild steels), the metal tends to form some martensite upon cooling. This will reduce the ductility, and increase the tendency to crack.
This is why it is so important not to weld mild steel with stainless filler metals just because they look nicer.
I could go into ferrite numbers, special nickel filler metals, and carbon content, but this is enough hi-jacking. Stick to 309. There are procedures in place for ms-ss, and none include 308 just because it will not pass the bend test due to martensite formation.
Back purging and then going the extra mile and stress relieving the entire manifold would go along way to making a tubular manifold that wouldn't crack, or at least exceed the life of the vehicle. If I made manifolds that's what I would do
OP the manifold looks great, makes me want to pick up some 316 rod.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2010
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Well its been really busy at the shop...we have been getting our company car ready for Ksport show. Making a display aswell. Oh and our new Kseiries manifold is out here are some pictures ....
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
how do you know how to cut the tube at the right angle when routing around the engine ect when doing downpipe and full systems if you get what i mean??
do you just put the pipe where you want it and mark it against the pipe thats already there??
do you just put the pipe where you want it and mark it against the pipe thats already there??
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2010
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
To get first placement we usually jig the manifold off of turbo placment.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2009
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Sounds to me like he is trying to figure out how to decide on the cut angles for his tubing. As in how did you decide what angle to cut your tubing at when routing your manifold?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2010
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
well both really doing your manifolds and downpipes ect how do you measure on what angle to cut your tubing at? how do you know if it needs a 70 degree cut and not a 90 to join the pipes and butt up nice?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Rotherham, S Yorks, UK
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
To the op, keep up the good work, are you using 3/16th's filler on sch 40?
Honda-Tech Member
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
You can also give yourself set degrees to work with. Only using 2 or 3 different ones and cut a boat load of each.
Honda-Tech Member
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From: Rotherham, S Yorks, UK
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Depends on what I'm doing.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Indianapolis, USA
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Yes, in theory, corrosion resistance is better. And, in many cases for 316 vs 304, it is. The exception is at high temp service. Both are rated for about the same service temperature roughly when it comes to most literature. The issue arises when the moly content in 316 allows precipitates to form, that eventually cause the weld to become brittle over time. This happens over long periods of exposure to the kinds of temps seen on turbo cars driven hard.
These formations, unlike many, are not alleviated by bringing the temperature of the material over the exposure temp that causes them in the first place. They can't be dissolved back into the metal. Now, we are talking amounts of time that will likely exceed most enthusiasts time with their toy cars, but it will happen. I use 316 on my exhaust/dp's for the same reason as everybody else, the colours. I also use it for extra corrosion resistance as mentioned, and because post-turbo parts will never see high temps for any extended time.
Manifolds in general are not something I'm keen on doing. Mostly, because all of you guys do a great job, and I don't need to build them to stay busy.
The other reason, is that they will all fail if driven long enough. I'm young, and I know that I will remain in contact with many customers for another 25 years. I offer lifetime warranty on anything I do. For this reason, I pick my battles. 100,000 miles will put enough cycles through any material to ruin it. Industry shows very well how fatigue and heat are very destructive. I have yet to see anything stand-up forever once you enter the 1000+ degree territory. I've seen many examples, and read alot of studies,etc on stainless and nickel alloys. I'm just passing some of it along as a caution. I'll tell you that 309 is one of the best rods to have around the shop if you could only carry one. It has excellent high heat properties, is the best for ss-ms, and does a hell of a job of ss-ss.
310 is another good rod to have around.
These formations, unlike many, are not alleviated by bringing the temperature of the material over the exposure temp that causes them in the first place. They can't be dissolved back into the metal. Now, we are talking amounts of time that will likely exceed most enthusiasts time with their toy cars, but it will happen. I use 316 on my exhaust/dp's for the same reason as everybody else, the colours. I also use it for extra corrosion resistance as mentioned, and because post-turbo parts will never see high temps for any extended time.
Manifolds in general are not something I'm keen on doing. Mostly, because all of you guys do a great job, and I don't need to build them to stay busy.
The other reason, is that they will all fail if driven long enough. I'm young, and I know that I will remain in contact with many customers for another 25 years. I offer lifetime warranty on anything I do. For this reason, I pick my battles. 100,000 miles will put enough cycles through any material to ruin it. Industry shows very well how fatigue and heat are very destructive. I have yet to see anything stand-up forever once you enter the 1000+ degree territory. I've seen many examples, and read alot of studies,etc on stainless and nickel alloys. I'm just passing some of it along as a caution. I'll tell you that 309 is one of the best rods to have around the shop if you could only carry one. It has excellent high heat properties, is the best for ss-ms, and does a hell of a job of ss-ss.
310 is another good rod to have around.
Trial User
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Visiting manufacturing units in Australia.
Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Well done. Looks like Good job done with concentration……..I am so much impressed by your welding work done in the pictures. Yes, in Automotive industry welding work is one of the significant works for sure.
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From: Fargo, ND, US
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Re: BoostFlows fab and welding work
Well in that case no, sorry we dont at this point. Are plan is to develop a kit for the ep3 civics. We are thinking the "ram horn" style top mount is going to be the best route.
We are also developing a forward facing manifold for the civic and integra...More cool pictures to come.
Boostflow.com
We are also developing a forward facing manifold for the civic and integra...More cool pictures to come.
Boostflow.com