RadekSkylark

Hallo guys,

it has come to a point where I'm totaly out of luck... I'm just unable to do anygood on stainless steel pipe/tube... I'm really not sure why is that so, here are some pics:

Thin wall stuff: 17 gauge 2" tube... 304 stainless steel... I'm pretty much coocking it all the time and nothing comes out as it should... using 3/32 red tungsten, standart gas lens, #8 cup, 4sec post flow, .039" filler, 26amps.



yesterday started and also today I'm trying 1 1/2" sch10 (actually .118" wall) stainless steel pipe... it's a disaster... using 3/32 red tungsten, standart gas lens, #8 cup, 9sec postflow, 1/16 filler, also trying .039" filler... on 70amps I cooked it from the start... 66amps, also cooked, down to 55amps, 55amsp - no penetration, and sometimes cooked... nothing comes out as it should...

bevel setup: started out with bevel 1/8" wide, was awfull, (like in the picture), also tryied ~11/64" this was the best setup, and ~13/64" this was awfull... pudle is super wet all the time, unreal to control, it flow where it want to flow... if I was doing 1/8" wide bevel on mild steel, it was superb, I was able to flow puddle in bevel and everything was cool... but with SS, puddle want to leave bevel and flow over edges of bevel...



here: 1/8 bevel on left, 13/64 on right... 1/8 works great for me on mild steel... the same pipe wall thickness!







What I want to say is: Collin, Aaron, Markku, 9bells, and all the other experianced guys out there - PLEASE help me with advices... I'm just unable to get any good results. I really need to start making some good results, cause if everthing goes good, I'll have to do 2jz twin turbo 3-1 top mount manifolds with downpipes for Borg Warner V-band turbos, that would be a huge step for me and with this kind of welding I wont be able to take that job... I just tought that SS will be something like mild steel, but unfortunately it isn't...

So all experianced guys, I really hope you'll be able to find few minutes to replay with some advices, cause I'm really in a bad situation, I'm out of ideas, and I don't have anyone to ask for help localy

Thanks already!

9bells

Ok, this is a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse...

You need torch time. I can't magically whisk away your inexperience. There are a ton of good threads and posts on here about the way to get things rolling.
Get off the net and on the torch!!!
First:
26 amps is way too low for tube. Also, look at any tungsten manufacturer's amperage chart, and you will see 3/32" is not a good choice for very low amps.
Second:
Your filler is likely too small for the pipe. .045" is pushing it for 1 pass(can be done by guys with more experience) and going colder is not the answer. 60-70 amps should be fine.
Use less forehand inclination, let the puddle flow a bit and put the filler in to fill it up.

Everybody is a little different, so take it all in and try a few different things. You really need to just get welding. Maybe that means a job like Collin did for a while. Sure worked for him. Take a course, whatever.
For your own future well being, don't take the manifold job just yet. You are not ready, and it could go very badly learning on an important job.
I apologize if this seems harsh, but it needed to be said for all the newbs wanting to weld like Collin in 5 hours.

ToxicFabrication

Well I could have told stainless is not quite like mild steel. Stainless is "wetter" and flows a lot different. 4 seconds post flow is not enough. If you can, kick it up to 10-12sec. The hardest part in welding stainless pipe is getting the puddle to stay inline and do what you want, unfortunately your welder has a on/off foot switch huh? I noticed if the puddle is jumping out of the bevel quickly back the heat off will keep it from killing the (look) of the weld. All I can say is it has taking me years not days to accomplish stainless pipe welding that I'm happy with.

It's seems you "need" this to happen for you? Practice makes perfect. This job your wanting to take on may not be the best idea. Making a good stainless pipe weld will not be the only challenge. So before taking it on, dial in your skills. That's my opinion.

Try more then 5 welds, also purging helps get a clean weld, but to much cfm with kinda blow out your arc or push it of track.
Hope this helps.
Collin

ToxicFabrication

Bells ya took the words outa my mouth, I think im a bad example for learning quickly haha.

Like bells said, there are so many great threads on here that can really point you in the right direction. It really takes time with the torch to develop the skills you need.
Collin

RadekSkylark

Everythings fine I kinda just waited for this kind of replays So I'm sure I'm doing everything ok and just need more seat time

Ok, I'll try 30amps for that tube (it's less then 1/16 wall), fill use that .039" filler there (actually today did a bit better with filler, just went much faster and did small dips, and it was much better then first time when I tried this tube).

Thanks 9bells!

"wetter" is definetly the term!!! for pipe I use 9sec postflow! and if something, I can kick it up to 20sec yeah, getting it go inline on mild steel pipe was nothing... SS doesnt want to go inline using bevel... thats my biggest problem - puddle jumps out of bevel, I can try to just play with my on/off pedal, cause I have up-slope/down-slope features, when I let of the pedal, it starts to downslope, so, when I'll notice that puddle wants to jump out of bevel will let of the pedal and then step on it again to move further!

I'll do all my free time with torch in my hand to get results I need... of course if my pipe welding will remain the same I won't take that job, but if I'll do better, I'll of course post it up, so we all can decide, should I take job or not...

P.S. I should be ok for some time with standart gas lens and #8 cup, right? or it could possibly be the reason I'm having a hard time?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your input!!!

TannerS14

How many hours you got in the torch/ how many tanks of argon have you been through?

RadekSkylark

wanted to ask one question - why is that when I weld on 60/65/70 amps, my 1/16 filler, when I dip it into puddle stucks there and I can't easely get it out? it really sticks in there... why is that so?

Thanks

russianvr4

you're probably dipping it in the edge of the puddle where its coldest. dip it smack in the middle

RadekSkylark

Yeah, I think I was dipping it more on the edge (of glory :D ), will try more in the middle

also today did one joint, no pics, but I started out using 64amps, went down to 60, and then tried 70... not a section with good color... one section cooked, all others almost cooked... and I did move pretty fast... I really can't get it... is it possible that SS is a bit different here in Latvia and welds a bit different?

Thanks

russianvr4

nope, SS is a pain in the butt. i much prefer to weld aluminum or titanium than stainless.

RadekSkylark

what amperage do you use for sch10??? (remember, I do 3mm (.118") wall!!! )

russianvr4

around 75

RadekSkylark

but thats with foot pedal, right? But actually where would you be? somewhere around 67-70?

SLMachine

If your having trouble now working w/ parts in a vice, then your gonna have major trouble trying to weld a manifold out of position and in tight areas. Not sure exactly why your trying to rush the process so you can take a job your clearly not ready for. Realistically you need to take a step back and work w/in your abilities, coloring is the least of your worries. From looking @ the pics you need to get your heat control, motion, and rythm in check before the coloring is going to come.

russianvr4

no i use the full 70

CRMB

Yikes. How can you even considering taking on work with that level of inexperience? Very scary.

RadekSkylark

Ok

When I started get pretty ok results on mild, I felt ok with myself, and, as somewhere I heared that SS is pretty much the same, I did stupid, and without trying it, thought that I'll be able to do the same level on SS... so started to advertise myself

Long story short - if I would of known that I'll be doing this bad on SS, I would start advertise later, when I'm ok with my SS welding... but unfortunately, everything is how it is, and I'm not backing up... will keep pushing it every spare minute I have...

this 2jz project is not in the rush as the owner says, he wants his car on the road in March or April 2012... so I have all autumnn to dial my welding in!

I can just say that this situation is really unfortunate for me... so, please, be more helpfull then sarcastic and pessimistic.

Thanks everyone!

weiRtech

1. experiment with your filler dipping technique. try dipping quickly and small amounts. try dipping slow and large amounts. it will help you see how the pool behaves when you are welding and help you to learn how to control it with your filler as well as your torch.

2. experiment with your torch speed. you will find it changes the shape and penetration of your weld as well.

3. try looking at different parts of the weld pool when you are doing this experimenting. i like to keep an eye on the edges of my weld pool to ensure there is a nice fluid smooth edge. i will adjust my filling to keep my pool size as consistent as possible. this will give you a nice even looking weld.

4. arc time, arc time, arc time. as already mentioned, the more you do it the better you will get. i still feel i have a long way to improve.

HellaFab

Radek. Do this like you did mild steel to learn.

Dont practice on tube. get some flat peices to practice practice practice. The flat part and the tube will have similar behaviors being that they are the same type (besides the obvious ease of welding flat vs more difficult tube)

Do hot passes with no filler to get your heat, torch speed and angle down. then introduce filler, etc.


Go over your own thread to remind yourself how you got to where you are with mild.

RadekSkylark

Thanks, those are great advices, thank you sir!

As my funds are super limited (and I really have a lot of things to buy) and already have those tubes/pipes, will keep on fighting them! cause plates cost mouney

The idea could've worked though

Thanks

RadekSkylark

Also wanted to ask... is that a bad idea making headers and exhaust out of 17gauge stainless?

And is it a good idea making downpipes and dump tubes out of 14 gauge stainless?

Thanks!

Nite_2nr

Lots of people use thinner gauge for lightness, the smallest gauge ive heard of is 18 for stainless exhaust peices. Personally id just use 16 gauge for the header and the rest of the exhaust.

RadekSkylark

I had idea of using 16 gauge as I knew pretty much everyone uses that... but unfortunately I can get everything only 17 gauge... so, I'm pretty much left without any options here...

Thanks

weiRtech

also experiment with your tungsten angle (when sharpening). a narrow angled sharper point will give you less penetration but a wider bead where a wider angle point will give you a more narrow but deeper penetrating bead.

RadekSkylark

Also a question...

When I need to do only one joint in the middle on exhast pipe, I connect my backpurge setup, start up gas flow...

Do I need to wait like until that pipe fills up with argon and then turn argon a bit less and then weld, or can I start welding while argon is just filling up that pipe?

Also, as I've understood, inlet of argon need to be higher then outlet, is that right, or it doesn't matter?

Thanks