Read-only link to BenseBuilt Google Sheets spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...-u_J2QyGtHRUg/


The purpose of this thread is for me to summarize the information that I have collected that will prove valuable to anyone that is interested in changing the gearing on their F-series, H-series, or 1st generation CR-V SBXM transmissions. The reason why this is valuable information is due to the fact that there already exists far more aftermarket gearing options for B-series transmissions than for H-series or SBXM transmissions. By following the information that I have provided here, one should be able to gear their H-series or B-series AWD (SBXM) transmissions however they please.

Brace yourself, get your cup off coffee -- I'm going to be presenting a definition, a formula, and one concept

A definition:
C.D. = Centre Distance = The distance between the centre axis of rotation for both the mainshaft and the countershaft.
B, F, H-series transmissions have the same C.D. -- Because of this, and because there's a lot of other shared parts between these transmissions, various
parts can be interchanged. This chart provides useful information that has never been posted or compiled elsewhere. By following this, you will know
which possibilities exist.





A concept:
The larger the gearing reduction jump is, the more work that the synchronizer has to do in order to before it can engage the gear.

Examples:
(1-(1.956/3.500))=0.4411 CR-V
(1-(1.956/3.285))=0.4046 H22A4 Prelude
(1-(1.900/3.231))=0.4119 Integra GSR
(1-(1.900/3.077))=0.3825 Integra GSR with MFactory 1st
(1-(2.091/3.285))=0.3635 Accord Type R
(1-(2.105/3.231))=0.3485 B16 / ITR
(1-(2.105/3.077))=0.3159 B16 / ITR with MFactory 1st



Take a look at this thread to see the various accord and Accord, Prelude gear ratios:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...-list-2548441/

Any F/H transmission with any of these 3rd gear ratios are what I consider to be 'DOHC VTEC' transmission.
1.344 (39/29) - M2T4, M2U4, M2V5, M2X4, M2X5, M2Y4, M2Z4, T2T4
1.360 (34/25) - M2A4, M2B4, M2F4, M2F5,
1.481 (40/27) - M2P4, M2R4, T2W4, U2Q7

B-series ratios:
Specnically Speaking: B-series Gear Ratio Guide + More!

B-series transmission codes are ambiguous and not indicative of which gears it has, or whether or not it is a 'DOHC VTEC' transmission. (S80 can be Integra Type R, as well as Integra LS). Therefore I consider any B-series transmission with either of these 3rd gear ratios to be a 'DOHC VTEC' transmission.
1.360 (34/25) - GSR (94-01)
1.458 (35/24) - B16 / ITR / B17*

Take note of that 1.360 third gear. Without even having to turn a wrench, without even having to have physical access to either one of these transmissions, we can prove that B-series and H-series have the same C.D. by simply making this observation in the Honda / Acura parts catalogs:

1996 Prelude VTEC
23442-P16-315 Gear Set, Main-Shaft Third https://www.hondapartscheap.com/oem-...rd-23442p16315
23471-P16-900 Gear, Counter-Shaft Third https://www.hondapartscheap.com/auto...ntershaft-scat

1994-2001 Acura GSR B18C1
23442-P16-315 Gear Set, Main-Shaft Third https://www.acuraoemparts.com/oem-pa...rd-23442p16315
23471-P16-900 Gear, Counter-Shaft Third https://www.acuraoemparts.com/oem-pa...rd-23471p16900


Enter the CR-V B-series AWD transmission.
The CR-V B-series transmission couldn't use shift linkage like the FWD because the rear driveshaft was in the way, so Honda had to use a cable shifter, and since a cable shift was neccesary, they just used the H22 transmission.
https://www.hondapartscheap.com/oem-...th-23481p16a00


Honda gave the CR-V a high 1st gear for that off-road, log climbing, tree-stump pulling power. This works to our disadvantage. The problem here is that.....


EDIT: Need to wait for response from Manufacturer.
Posting this thread for the time being, but will temporarily lock it.

 

2nd post: reserved for future use.
This will discuss how a slight change in the design for aftermarket LSDs for these transmissions will then allow already existent B-series final drives (which there are already tons of ratios).

In short: Integra GSR / Type R ring gears have the same bolt pattern as H-series. This can be confirmed by looking at the technical drawings of the LSDs that Quaife provides us with:
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/honda-accord-quaife-atb-helical-lsd-differential
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/honda-civic-type-r-ek6-quaife-atb-helical-lsd-differential

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/media/blfa_files/QDF5U.pdf
https://shop.quaife.co.uk/media/blfa_files/QDF6U.pdf

Proof that AWD B-series ring gears have the same bolt pattern as H22:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transm...ission-3027124


A different clutch housing bearing needs to be used to accomodate the B-series countershaft. Fortunately, Honda already did this in a 'rare' EDM trans. If you can't find it for less than $40 shipped, PM me.
91101-PSW-003 - Bearing, Needle, 33x62x22

This thread also shows that its possible to use ring gears such as the H22 ring gear to change out the final drive from the 4.5625 to common F/H-series. This also suggests that it's possible to do this with a B-series ring gear:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...d-crv-3249871/

I just forwarded this information to MFactory. Which means that this now means that SBXM transmission can utilize 1-5 B-series gears by using a few different shims.

 

SpeedFactory's $600 FWD2AWD conversion kit.

Before you consider purchasing this kit / going this route, observe the following video. As you're watching it, think about how this is exactly what 'SpeedFactory' is doing to you when you give them $600 for this kit.

The most relevant part about this production of theirs can be seen in this screenshot that I took 2:47 into their youtube video, which I will now dissect.

In this picture there are 4 shims. From top to bottom, here's what each of these shims are for: Take notice how
1) B-series Reverse Idler gear Shim -- This can be used if you've got a B-series FWD reverse idler gear, and not the AWD idler gear. In other words, if you've got a core CR-V trans, (which you will need to get the 1st/2nd fork from anyway), then why would you even need this?
2) Shim that's used when using their aldins dogbox -- Trust me, the cost for 'dog boxes' is absolutely stupid. No customer should ever have to go out of their way to spend more money to modify their transmission to accommodate a ridiculously overpriced gearset that they're making a ton of profit from. Why is this shim even included in this kit and not with the Aldins dogbox kit? DIN988 shims cost less than $4/each. I feel like SpeedFactory is just throwing these extra shims in there just because it doesn't cost them anything (If its a common shim from mcmaster-carr, etc, then its going to be less than $4/each. And if its custom, then they likely had a large batch of them made, so at this point, its an extremely cheap 'filler' part just to make it seem like they've got something to sell you.
3) Shim that goes under the 1-2 synchro hub. This is most likely to accommodate the difference in spacing for the B-series 1-2 synchro hub, which is designed to be used with a single cone synchro for first gear, whereas the cr-v has dual-cone synchro for first gear. This shim is necessary for this kit that they offer.
4) Shim that goes 'under' the mainshaft. This is nice that they provide this. It's got a 28mm ID. I would be curious to see what the height (thickness) of this shim is. However, remember that Honda's transmission design entails a 28mm ID washer (23928-PS1-000 Washer (28MM)) as well as a 28mm ID spring washer (23927-PG2-A00 Washer, Spring (28MM)). -- In other words, if there doesn't already exist a 28mm ID round shim that is the proper thickness of this shim, buy 2-3 extra of the 28mm washer. When you get the measurements proper, you can sand down the heights of 1-2 of these things to get your clearances proper.

If it were me and if I really wanted to use B-series 1-2 gears in my SBXM trans, I would measure the 1-2 synchro hubs to determine the height for shim #3. I would then go here (https://www.mcmaster.com/round-shims) and filter out their shims that are 40mm ID. Although its possible that the OD of these common, Mcmaster shims are too large. (All of my B-series, F-series parts are currently 200+ miles away in my father's barn, so I'm not able to check).

But then I would just use the CR-V SBXM synchro sleeve (pretty sure its the same as F/H-series) on the B-series hub, and then just use the CR-V SBXM shift fork. However, if it were me, I would take the $600 that I was planning on spending for this 'FWD2AWD' kit, and just purchase a B-series MFactory final drive.
http://www.teammfactory.com/catalog/...Honda/B16B_18C

 

4th post reserved for future use

 

5th time is a charm. Okay, opening thread up and stickying to top of forum.

 

At the rate that I'm going here, I am going to need to reserve a few more of these first posts. I also want to provide information pertaining to the aftermarket gearing options that are available.

 

and another reserved post.

 

f

 

I feel like these threads are being overlooked due to them being stickied

 

I was wondering if we were going to see any updates here!

I have some questions that are going to probably come across as quite amateur, but oh well.

I have an EG hatch with a stock B18C1 in it, tied to an LS tranny. I love the 5th gear on the interstate, but wouldn't mind a more aggressive 1st/2nd.

I had a GSR tranny in it (briefly) and went to the LS trans (probably was a mistake, but that ship has sailed)

At first I thought maybe I could trade out the 1st & 2nd gears to get closer to what I wanted, or find a GSR tranny and swap the 5th, but then I found this which shows me my issue is the final drive ratio. 1st/2nd are identical between the LS & GSR trans:



I see the LS trans has a little deeper 5th, but if I multipl the Final drive times the 5th, I see the GSR has a final, final of 3.46 vs. 3.05 in the LS box.

Using the same math, the effective 1st gear in the GSR box is 14.21 vs. 13.78 for LS.

Is there anyway I can have my cake and eat it too? Can I take m LS trans and get a nastier 1st (and maybe 2nd) but keep that nice, comfy 5th?

I think the jist of your thread is there are gears from F & H trans that will fit in the B-series boxes, but I don't know if there are any gear swaps that I can pull off that will change my box into what I want.

Thanks for any insight you may have!

 

Gear ratio info from here: Specnically Speaking: B-series Gear Ratio Guide + More!

 

I dont think persons recognise the relevance of the information you post. I just pulled apart a JDM 2WD 98 CRV Manual Transmission. The ratios are the same as the F20B Vtech Ratios.
1st 3.285
2nd 1.95
3rd 1.34
4th 1.034
5th .787
just have to place the gearsets in the awd tranny. longer 1st gear

 

So if I could find one of those 3.285 1st gears, and it fit in the LS trans, I would have an effective 1st of 14.01 - right between where I am now and the GSR trans.
I would probably do that if that gear would fit and if I could find one. It would be a good time to replace the synchros.

Thanks!

 

It sounds like what you're describing is a wide-ratio transmission. The only time wide-ratio gearing and Honda belong in the same sentence is if you were referring to an AWD CR-V or Element that goes off road and needs to climb over rocks, logs, etc.
You don't need short 1st/2nd gears. Are you towing trailers or something? If you want to reduce your cruising highway RPMs a lower final drive. There are already many, many, many threads about this.


Thank you for the appreciation. Are you absolutely certain that 1st gear is 3.285 instead of 3.500?
This is the first (pun somewhat intended lol) that I've heard of this and this is contrary to everything that I have seen before.

Please forgive my skepticism, but I want to see pictures of the countershaft 1st gear where I can see the number of teeth as well as you holding a measuring caliper showing a 43mm measurement of the inner diameter.

H22 countershaft 1st gears (USDM and H22 type R) have inner diameter of 46mm.
91105-P16-008 Bearing, Needle (40x46x26.8) (Ntn) - 2000 Prelude H22A4 countershaft 1st gear needle bearing (single cone synchro on this 1st gear)
91107-PDG-008 Bearing, Needle, 40x46x22 - 2000 H22A7 Accord Type R countershaft 1st gear needle bearing (dual-cone synchro on this 1st gear)

CR-V SBXM B20Z countershaft 1st gears have inner diameter of 43mm.
91107-PBW-003 Bearing, Needle (37x43x21.5) - 2000 CR-V 4WD 5MT countershaft 1st gear needle bearing (dual-cone synchro on this 1st gear).

Gear Teeth count:
3.285 = 46/14
3.307 = 43/13
3.500 = 49/14**** -- I am uncertain if this is correct. The ratio is listed as 3.500 and I have estimated that the teeth count is 49/14. It could also be 42/12, 56/16. But these are less likely.


Edit: I said that B-series FWD countershaft 1st gears were 42mm ID. This is incorrect. They are 43mm ID. Thank you to nammdelano for pointing this out.

 

Yes I am certain. Teeth Count below
46 14
45 23
39 29
30 29
26 33

I marked each gear and counted them several times. The JDM Thorneo Accord has this exact gear ratio except with a 4.2 final drive. it comes with 2L motor (destroked H22 ) only available in Japan. The 2wd CRV tranny has the exact ratio except with a 4.5 Final drive. itis a SBXM tranny without the transfer case. its blocked off

 

I have not yet pulled the gears a apart to measure the 1st gear inner diameter however I attached a pic of the 1st gear from the underside so you can see the teeth count

 

Thank you for the pictures!!
Here's the calculated ratios, based off of your provided teeth count, and these are in fact the same 1-5 ratios as T2T4 F20B transmission. Basically the same 1-5 as our USDM 5th gen prelude transmission, but 0.787 fifth gear. (but different final drive)
46/14 = 3.285714286
45/23 = 1.956521739
39/29 = 1.344827586
30/29 = 1.034482759
26/33 = 0.787878788

I also count 16 teeth on the countershaft. The only OEM B/F/H countershaft with 16-teeth are
65/16 = 4.0625 Accord F22/F23, etc
73/16 = 4.5625 CR-V

So unless you are trolling me (not that I think that you are lol) by taking a picture of an assembled F23 countershaft, then you are correct.

Something about that countershaft 1st gear must be different than the normal F/H-series single-cone, 3.285 ratio, countershaft 1st gear. I would suspect that it is most similar to the H22 Type R countershaft 1st gear, which is 3.285 ratio, but dual-cone synchro and 46mm ID.
I am very curious to find out the inner diameter of this countershaft 1st gear of yours is, as well as if it's dual-cone or single-cone synchro. Is there a tranmission code? Something like SBXM, etc?

Side note: In 2017 I rebuilt a M2Y4 (USDM 1997-2001 Prelude Base H22A4) transmission that I installed in my old, H23A DOHC VTEC swapped 2001 Accord, that I then put over 15k miles on. I rebuilt that transmission using:
* countershaft 1st gear, countershaft 1st gear spacer, countershaft 1st gear needle bearing, new dual-cone synchronizer, and 1-2 synchro hub+sleeve that I pulled from a T2W4 transmission.
* h22a4 mainshaft with brand new countershaft 2nd gear
* 4th gearset taken from T2W4
* 5th gearset taken from M2F4
My point being, is that it is in fact possible to mate the dual-cone synchro, 3.285 ratio countershaft 1st gear with a normal H22A4 mainshaft.



Edit: I wonder if this is that's in all 2WD 5MT, 1g CR-V transmissions. We did not have 2WD 1g CR-V with 5MT in North America.

 

I've discovered this back in 2017, made a post about it and haven't thought about it since. The EDM 1g HR-V 2WD transmission has the same 4.5625 final drive, however the final drive ring gear is a different part number than the 1g HR-V AWD ring gear. The differential used in the 1g HR-V 2WD is the same part number as the differentials in our USDM 6th gen Accord F23 transmissions. Using this info we are able to deduce that its possible to install a 4.5625 final drive in a F/H-series transmission, provided that one overcomes a few obstacles:
* The 4.5625 final drive ring gear needs to be from 2WD HR-V. This is because it has the same offset as the normal FWD F/H-series ring gears. You'll need this ring gear if you want to bolt it up to a F/H-series FWD differential/LSD. The part number for this ring gear is 41233-PEV-000.
* The 4.5625 final drive countershaft is 36mm where it goes into the clutch housing cylindrical roller bearing. F/H-series is 38mm. The dimensions for HR-V / CR-V clutch housing countershaft cylindrical roller bearing are: (91101-PBW-003 Bearing, Needle (36X62X22)). The dimensions of the equivalent F/H-series bearing are: (91103-P6J-004 Bearing, Needle (38x65x22) (Koyo)). You must get a custom collar that has the dimensions of 63x65x22mm. You can then slide the HR-V / CR-V clutch housing countershaft bearing into the sleeve, and then install this bearing+sleeve into the F/H-series clutch housing.
* The 4.5625 final drive countershaft is 37mm diameter where 1st gear goes. F/H-series is 40mm in this region. You will need to find a way to utilize one of the countershaft 1st gears that fits on this countershaft, such as the 3.500 or one of these, brand newly discovered, 20+ year old 3.285 first gears. Alternatively, If one were to use a B-series mainshaft, the 1992+ B-series countershafts are 37mm diameter in 1st gear region. It might be possible to use a B-series countershaft 1st gear needle bearing with some spacers, along with a B-series countershaft 1st gear. Shimming will be required. It also might be helpful to re-check and see what the OEM DC2 98+ Type R 4.785 final drive uses. If my memory serves me correctly, using that final drive in regular b-series trans required the use of its corresponding countershaft 1st gear and countershaft 1st gear needle bearing (possibly a washer/shim as well, I forget).

Also, just so y'all know, Gear-X does offer a gearset for these transmissions, and I am, in fact a Gear-X distributor. I've made ONE sale in the last 3 years. Lmao.

Don't say I never did anything for y'all haha

 

Damn. Someone needs to buy me a case of beer for this lol

 

I bet its this
23421-PKH-000

Need to confirm tho

 

Here's more info that I've found. Honda Orthia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Orthia)
What's very interesting is seeing the specs for the 2000 Orthia M4 5MT 4WD. Its got the T2T4 1-5 ratios, as well as the 4.2666 final drive, but its also 4WD. Perhaps this has the parts necessary for B-Series AWD folks to reduce their final drive from 4.5625 to 4.2666. Based off of the information that I just posted about the 1g HR-V transmission, I would suspect that these 4.06 final drive ring gears are going to be the same as the ones found in our normal F/H transmissions. Perhaps the countershaft is 36mm diameter where it goes into the clutch housing bearing. -- It also could be that the FWD clutch housing for these transmissions utilize the larger OD countershaft bearings that the F/H transmissions use. If this is the case, then it could mean that the pictures that we're seeing, are just normal 4.06 F-series countershaft with the normal F23/h22a4 3.285 countershaft 1st gear. This ambiguity no makes me skeptical, where I will now need to see pictures of the countershaft disassembled + measurements.

Worst case scenario, this ambiguity has provided motivation for me to discover parts that I probably wouldn't have discovered..... for a transmission that I've never owned, nor will I ever own.

2000 Honda Orthia B 5MT FWD
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c..._orthia_b.html
3.285
1.956
1.344
1.034
0.787
F = 4.06

2000 Honda Orthia M 5MT FWD
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c..._orthia_m.html
3.285
1.956
1.344
1.034
0.787
F = 4.06


2000 Honda Orthia M4 5MT 4x4
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/c...orthia_m4.html
3.285
1.956
1.344
1.034
0.787
F = 4.27

 

Dont know why my messages are not being posted. the transmission code I have is SKH

 

IIRC, B/F/H countershaft nut is 32mm. Zip that sucker off and get pics!
You can even use a 1 1/4" socket (31.75mm)

 

lol, I will and give you pics and measurements

 

I am currently happy with cruising highway RPMs! I have the LS trans, and what I think is the 4.266 final dive combined with the 0.714 5th. No complaints there.

What I am seeking is a peppier 1st to get my B18 moving a little faster with that 4.266 final drive. So the 3.285 1st got me interested, unless a) it won't fit in my LS trans w/o major work, or b) it will create such an RPM drop when going into the current 1.90 2nd that it will feel like the B18 fell in a hole.

If there are good threads out there already that I should read, please point me in that direction. I found your thread and started here. Clearly I am a noob on the topic of mixing gears...