I would like to know the differences between the two motor i already know that the ZC engine is not v-tec but what other diferences has de ZC from the b16 first gen

 

well the b16 is a factory performance geared motor, the differences are great

b16:

high compression 10:4:1

dual overhead camshafts

VTEC

low geared transmission for faster accelleration

high rev

depending on the transmission factory LSD

focus on the fact that the b16a is a factory performance geared motor. made for race like atmosphere

 

What 90% of the b-series nutswingers on this site won't tell you, is that the main reason B16s make more power than any of the d-series is not because it has two cams, and not because it has vtec. But mainly because the b16 has a larger bore with a shorter stroke.

Yes, they're both ~1600cc but the larger bore that the b16 offers, means that you have larger valves.

Larger valves = more flow.

 

well what you said is true, however

larger bore x shorter stroke x high compression x larger valves = more power

that with the short geared transmission makes for great horsepowe numbers along with fast accelleration. that in a nut shell is why the b16 is so popular. its not exactly your everyday zc dohc or sohc there are many of reasons why it is superior over other motors. however it comes down to wallet and opinion some people just like to build the d series to prove it can be faster than b series, or they just dont have the wallet for it.

 

more and cheaper aftermarket for the B as well.

 

there head design and piston/stroke configs are superior

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What 90% of the b-series nutswingers on this site won't tell you, is that the main reason B16s make more power than any of the d-series is not because it has two cams, and not because it has vtec. But mainly because the b16 has a larger bore with a shorter stroke.

Yes, they're both ~1600cc but the larger bore that the b16 offers, means that you have larger valves.

Larger valves = more flow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And the main reason why an LS1 makes more power than a b16 is not because it has 2 heads and 8 cylinders, its because it has more than 50% more cubes, Bense who cares what the reasons are why a b16 makes more power than D's? what matters is that it does. every motor makes more power than another for all kinds of reasons.

 

yeah, but "just knowing that it does" is not a adequate answer for me

 

plain and simple FLOW and RPM are the biggest factors in making HP in any internal combustion motor. Displacement is the main factor in TQ so two equally sized motors that rev to the same RPM will likely make close to the same power w/ the one that flows better making a tad more.

take a stock B16 dyno and cut it off at 7000rpm and lay it over a y8 dyno sheet. b16 flows more giving it the advantage up top, coupled to a close ratio transmission makes it seem like its so much more powerful than it is. and all you guys buy into that train of though, therefore the price is outrageous for the performance.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

take a stock B16 dyno and cut it off at 7000rpm and lay it over a y8 dyno sheet. b16 flows more giving it the advantage up top, coupled to a close ratio transmission makes it seem like its so much more powerful than it is. and all you guys buy into that train of though, therefore the price is outrageous for the performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah Lee but You cant go taking stuff from a motor just to "expose" it for what it really is. Honda engineers did give it the r/s ratio to rev to 8k along with the cams to make power close to that RPM and gear ratio's to take advantage of the powerband etc. its EXACTLY like saying , take the longer stroke of the d16 and give it the b16 stroke and see if it still make tq. or.."Take out 4 spark plugs from your ls1 and u will see it has nothing on my k20"

 

no thats exactly what im saying, the stock D series head doesnt support the airflow to rev to 8000rpm efficiently, therefore it doesnt make the same amount of HP. regardless of bottom end the displacement is 1.6L, the only factor making a differance is the top end. tq between the 2 is nearly identical and the only reason the b16 makes more power is because it revs higher. no if ands or buts about it. but my arguement will always be: is that extra 1000rpm worth the extra $1500 or more for a B16, or would a d16vtec w/ top end work outperform the b16 and come out cheaper in the end???? i know the answer, just seems nobody is willing to do the work and would rather buy into the B series craze and continue driving up the prices.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no thats exactly what im saying, the stock D series head doesnt support the airflow to rev to 8000rpm efficiently, therefore it doesnt make the same amount of HP. regardless of bottom end the displacement is 1.6L, the only factor making a differance is the top end. tq between the 2 is nearly identical and the only reason the b16 makes more power is because it revs higher. no if ands or buts about it. but my arguement will always be: is that extra 1000rpm worth the extra $1500 or more for a B16, or would a d16vtec w/ top end work outperform the b16 and come out cheaper in the end???? i know the answer, just seems nobody is willing to do the work and would rather buy into the B series craze and continue driving up the prices.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually imo, and keep in mind this is my opinion based on my funds, and goals. but I think it IS worth the extra $1500. lets face it nobody buys a b16 or any motor to keep it stock. and regardless of what is done, turbo ,Nitrous, all motor. that $1500 extra you spent will make the differnce compared to the d16 equivalent.

That extra 1000 rpm can easily be bumped up to an extra 2500 useable and reliable rpm on oem bottom ends parts. making 300+ is common on a boosted stock b16. on average its about 230 for a d16. and thats not just an extra 70+ hp your getting for $1500, you talking about trapping 10+mph higher. thats BIG for $1500

 

i agree, its definately a better starting point for making tremendous power, but the average person asking a question like the OP doesnt have the funds or knowledge to "build" so all my post in this thread where merely STOCK VS STOCK.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no if ands or buts about it. but my arguement will always be: is that extra 1000rpm worth the extra $1500 or more for a B16, or would a d16vtec w/ top end work outperform the b16 and come out cheaper in the end???? i know the answer, just seems nobody is willing to do the work and would rather buy into the B series craze and continue driving up the prices.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I say the extra 1000 rpm and/or ~30 more horsepower is definately worth it. Fact is you can probably make a 200+ hp motor for far less than a stock b16, but it's never going to be as durable as stock from the factory.

1000 rpm is no small thing, and it goes far beyond simply a simple ecu program change.

 

are you serious you are basing the price of the motor to the extra 1000rpm it revs over d series?

last time i check the b16 was 160hp and 111tq

10:2:1 compression
high rev
factory lsd transmission
low geared transmission
dual overhead camshaft
VTEC
larger bore
head flow
ect ect ect

there are MANY reasons why the b16 is superior over d16 and its not just cost 1500.00 is cheap for the ammount of features this motor places over a d16

its not just rev that makes this motor better but as i always say THIS MOTOR IS A FACTORY PERFORMANCE GEARED MOTOR.

if the motor wasnt so superior why would it come out in the 88-91 crx sir and the xsi integras in japan. and then years later the b16 again shows up in the 99 civic si as the b16a2 with very little motor changes. if it wasnt so superior than honda would have scratched the motor and put sumthing better in its place..... like they did with the k20 but for years the dohc has been superior over sohc no matter what way you cut it.

also basing sohc vs dohc dohc will always be superior over the sohc as it places more power right off the bat, and like some of you said.... get a sohc and build the top end. yea however then you would be comparing a built motor to a stock motor

how about you build a sohc head and a dohc head, and see what one then has more power

 

my comparison is on COST VS PERFORMANCE.
the B16 might show a few more hp on the dyno, but i garentee you its MAINLY because of the higher revs, just look at the TQ curve, it tells the whole story, not much differant than the D16 vtec, until the d16 head stops flowing. i dont feel like arguing w/ a B series nut swinger, because quite simply you are just too ignorant to believe that your b16 isnt that great box stock. better starting point YES, stock vs D, not so much better, and definately not for the extra cost.

 

cant we all just get along????????????

 

i think its funny you ar looking at the motor as a aspect of numbers when in reality you arent just paying for numbers. and a motor is much more than just numbers

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you serious you are basing the price of the motor to the extra 1000rpm it revs over d series?

last time i check the b16 was 160hp and 111tq

10:2:1 compression
high rev
factory lsd transmission
low geared transmission
dual overhead camshaft
VTEC
larger bore
head flow
ect ect ect

there are MANY reasons why the b16 is superior over d16 and its not just cost 1500.00 is cheap for the ammount of features this motor places over a d16

its not just rev that makes this motor better but as i always say THIS MOTOR IS A FACTORY PERFORMANCE GEARED MOTOR.

if the motor wasnt so superior why would it come out in the 88-91 crx sir and the xsi integras in japan. and then years later the b16 again shows up in the 99 civic si as the b16a2 with very little motor changes. if it wasnt so superior than honda would have scratched the motor and put sumthing better in its place..... like they did with the k20 but for years the dohc has been superior over sohc no matter what way you cut it.

also basing sohc vs dohc dohc will always be superior over the sohc as it places more power right off the bat, and like some of you said.... get a sohc and build the top end. yea however then you would be comparing a built motor to a stock motor

how about you build a sohc head and a dohc head, and see what one then has more power </TD></TR></TABLE>

we know and don't care.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18sihatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how about you build a sohc head and a dohc head, and see what one then has more power </TD></TR></TABLE>

The only main advantage that DOHC has over SOHC is that you can fine tune each cam individually with cam gears.

Or if you really know what you're doing, you can just get a custom cam. Or let someone else pick out a cam for you (read: crower)

Bisi made more power with his f22 than a h22 could. the f22 head design is superior. He made like 400whp with that ****** too.

but then again, when it comes to the engine that I plan on building, I will be choosing a DOHC VTEC platform. Why? Because there's support for it. and I don't feel like going into full all out custom ****. More tuners are experienced with the setup, etc.

 

my sole point in this thread is STOCK VS STOCK, D is a better choice, if you plan on building of coarse the B has an advantage. the only B16 i feel is worth the price is the LS, the rest are overpriced because of threads like this where Bseries nutswingers think a B16 is godly w/ its 111 ft lbs at the crank. WOOT, if buy a B16 w/ the intention of it staying stock PREPARE to be dissappointed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schardbody &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the B16 might show a few more hp on the dyno, but i garentee you its MAINLY because of the higher revs, just look at the TQ curve, it tells the whole story, not much differant than the D16 vtec, until the d16 head stops flowing.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand what you're saying, and I agree it's mainly the revs...but i guess I'm not getting the point. I mean...ultimately there's two variables in a horsepower formula: revs and torque. Trying to discredit an engine because it's better "just because of revs" is really not saying much.

I could just as well argue that an S2000 engine is better than own two legs "just because of the higher revs," but it doesn't make the S2000 any less of a motor.

 

i agree, you dont understand, im not discrediting the b16 at all, im simply saying in terms of stock vs stock a b16 isnt worth the extra money, IMO ofcoarse.

 

honestly theres no reason to be cheap, in this ''scene'' NOTHING good is cheap. motors are no exception.

im not a b16 nutswinger if you will. i have built a sohc,ls,b16 ect. and out of them all dual overhead camshafts are just a better platform, and the price of them is not expendsive you have to shell out for performance.

stock vs stock 130hp vs 160hp

you are looking at motors based JUST on the horsepower it makes and the torque it makes, you forget that its dual overhead camshaft,vtec,HIGH COMPRESSION,larger bore,higher rev,more horsepower

lets just give this example.

you have 2 hatchbacks one with b16 one with d16

both stock.

then do the quarter. what one will win? now how are you disapointed. the b16 will put you into the 14s easy and the sohc will keep you into the 15s low 15s. its NOT just the horsepower that is better. but also the transmission. Factory LSD, low gearing= faster accelleration

why do you tihnk a good ammount of people use the ls motor but the b16 transmission. take a look at the type r transmission then look at the s1 xsi transmission same gearing!

 

you dont understand, dude, im talking stock whp vs stock whp. not 1/4 mile times, to many factors to determine in. you really agree that $1500 is worth the extra 20whp or so??? possibly, but is it worth the 5ft lbs of tq???? i dont think so, not to me.

b16 makes more hp solely because honda designed the dohc vtec head to flow which in turn allows it to rev higher than a d16. any if you know anything you know that RPM=hp gains. point blank, im done arguing. its a matter of opinion. MINE has BEEN discussed.