After having installed the Wilwood 4-pot kit from fastbrakes.com, I found that my GSR wheels won't fit properly. Problem is... I can't seem to find many wheels that WILL fit! Besides my dissatisfaction, does anyone know what wheel will fit? I like those new Rota Slipstreams, but I don't think they'll fit! I'd like to stick with a 15" wheel; if not then 16" will have to do...

Any input would be greatly appreciated...

 

From what I understand... that kit needs 16" on the GSR.... thus the reason I am simply going to slotted rotors and upgraded pads...

 

16" may be the way to go.
did you call Brian at fastbrakes yet? that is where I would start.

 

Yup. He also told me my 15" GSRs would fit. I don't think advice coming from that source is reliable anymore.

The backs of my GSRs had to be ground off by an angle grinder. Install also took 3 more hours for my mechanic to install because of this. As a result, that's another $150 right there just because I was told the kit would fit. Now, I have to shell out another $1000 for new wheels and new tires. All because I was told my 15" GSRs would fit.

 

This was taken directly from fastbrakes web site.

_civic 4 piston caliper kit

Now available is the Fastbrakes 4 piston caliper kit utilizing the Wilwood Billet Dynalite calipers. This kit will remove approx 8 lbs per wheel of unwanted weight. This kit will provide all the braking power and control you will ever need for less than other 4 piston caliper kits on the market. Fits all 1984-2000 Civic/CRX/Del Sol with the 9.5" disc brakes. Requires 15" wheels. Note: Will not fit some factory 15" wheels, a spacer approx 10mm thick may be required

 

I've seen them with 15 inch rota c8's but i don't know if you have to run a spacer

 

Which Willwoods do you have? I have the 4 piston dynalites and they just fit under stock 95 GSR alloys (about 3/32" to spare) However, The 4 piston Ultralites with the 12" rotors WILL NOT FIT. Which kit did you get? it's possible that Brian is confused about your setup because i have found him to be very reliable and knowledgeable about his brake kits.

Mike

 

Did your calipers look anything like the ones in this pic? Those are mine after I shaved the caliper down enough to get both my stock 95 GSR wheels and my Rota Subzero's on. I actually had more problems with the Rota's than the stock wheels! Note that there's also a 3mm spacer on there - with a larger spacer I wouldn't have had to shave the caliper, but I didn't want to run out of threads on my stock wheel studs. Anyway, I'm not too happy with my kit either. I probably put 50hrs of labor into this kit.



[Modified by Caffeine Slug, 3:38 PM 3/24/2002]

 

Caffeine Slug--

YES. THAT is the problem that I'm talking about. I just did not feel too good shaving down my caliper that much--I have no idea how far is "too far" so I ended up shaving the backside of my wheel instead. Your setup is EXACTLY like mine. Much to my chagrin, the caliper still hits the backsides of the spokes (1-2mm of material taken out of the wheel spokes). Paranoid as I am, I don't want to run my wheels any longer... I'm a 10/10ths driver through rather twisty canyon roads, and I just don't want to take the chances.

I'm using the same "Made in China" 3mm spacer Brian @ fastbrakes.com provided, same Superlight IIA caliper (btw, for all those who don't know--this is a CAST aluminum caliper, NOT the billet ones you see all the time in Sport Compact Car). Incidentally, the pictures Brian had on the website at the time had led me to believe that I would be receiving billet calipers. Although the pictures have been "fixed" now, it was still nonetheless very aggrivating. I too have spent hours and hours on this brake kit, and I want to reiterate once again my dissatisfaction with this kit. Caffeine Slug--did you have to "shave down" your outer pad by a few mm? I was very very annoyed at having to do this, especially when being touted as a "bolton" kit.

BTW, 10mm spacers are a joke. The 3mm spacer than Caffeine Slug and I received from fastbrakes.com is barely small enough to keep from running out of lug threads. 10mm throws your effective offset wayyyy off and not to mention rubbing, suspension misalignment, etc.

I am now considering the Konig Glide and the Konig Rated-Rs to replace my 95 GSRs. Problem is, I can't get a lightweight rim that'll fit--no lightweight wheel will clear my @#$%ing wilwoods!

BTW, which rotors did Brian send you? Mine were Brembos for the Prelude VTEC, redrilled for the Civic, which looks like what yours is as well... however, mine are not slotted, and my inner section is now rusty (where you have yours silver on the rotor surface).

Just also wanted to add I got the 11" rotor kit. Brian indicated to me that his 95 GSR wheel fit on that 11" kit, with a little caliper shaving--"a few passes with a file" was what Brian said. A little shaving is not what I see on my kit, nor it is not what I see on Caffeine Slug's kit.



[Modified by PyroVTEC, 2:32 AM 3/24/2002]

 

Yeah, I had to shave the outer pad down as well - what a PITA. Really wish I had a belt sander or something, b/c it probably took 45 minutes and 8 sheets of sandpaper to get both outside pads to a reasonable thickness. I'm really not looking forward to replacing them.

My rotors are Super Slot or something like that - they're actually the second set of rotors I received from him. This kit is actually in its second revision, and it sounds like you got the latest one. The first one was far worse (he said I got the first production kit - not a good idea!). The bracket was a rectangular piece of aluminum with two holes drilled in it, not the nice looking piece in the latest version with the threaded holes. The rotors were different as well. When the suspension would compress, the left rotor would actually rub against the lower control arm in 3 different places! Completely unacceptable.

And yes, he said there would be "a little" shaving for my calipers as well. It would have taken DAYS to file those things down by hand. As it was, it still took a number of hours with an electric angle grinder.

So if anyone out there is looking to buy this kit in its already-modified form with some Porterfield R4S pads, let me know.

Edit: if anyone really does want to buy this kit from me (cheap!) and thinks that the calipers will fit in their stock form, you can actually buy just the outer half of the caliper straight from Wilwood, and replace it yourself.


[Modified by Caffeine Slug, 7:48 PM 3/23/2002]

 

What are the offsets of the wheels you guys are using? Sounds like it's more of a wheel problem the a kit problem. Though i know he is trying to pass it off to fit. If you get big brakes you usaly have to get bigger wheels.


[Modified by mantic6t9, 7:18 AM 3/24/2002]

 

have you tried contacting fastbrakes about this? what do they have to say about it?

 

The offset of the GSR wheel should be +45mm, which is already a lot to work with. The GSR rim already has the spokes pushed wayy out relative to the hub mounting surface.

At least you had the patience to sand it down by hand. Brian told me to rub the brake pad against the ground for a couple of minutes to thin it down. I was there on the sidewalk for two hours to have less than 1mm shaved off. I eventually took the damned pads to a shadetree mechanic; he used an angle grinder, and really screwed up the flatness of the pads.

I am getting a little bit of rubbing sound, primarily from the left side. When turning under a high g-load, there is a slight rubbing sound... I thought it was the brake dust shield at first, but now that I think about it, the LCAs may be suspect. I refuse to file ANYTHING anymore... this is BS.

I have contacted Brian a little bit, but let's be honest there... I honestly doubt he'd take his kit back, as dissatisfied as I am. What would he do w/ our used hardware?

Caffeine--How does your kit perform though? I still have the drums out back (I have a 99 Civic EX that this kit's on), but it does feel a little better than stock, although not $650 better, that's for sure. The bias is a little further forward though; I'm not sure if you noticed. I used to be able to get the rear wheels to skip a bit (i.e.: almost locking) in some hard braking through bumpy turns, but no more. I'm using the PolyMatrix D pads from Wilwood. Brian tells me I can order pads from different makers that aren't as thick to begin with. Then again, Brian also told me this was a bolt-on affair...

 

Another note... it's not even the offset or diameter of the wheel that's the problem. It's the spoke clearance. I tried my buddy's Motegi Racing MR7 wheels.. 16x7 in +42mm. Diameter is fine. But the spoke clearance was not. Caffeine Slug and I need at least 1.3" from the rotor mounting surface to the closest point of any spoke. I tried a set of 15" Konig Heliums. Same thing. Diameter was fine (actually almost a half inch of clearance in diameter!), but the spokes don't even get close to clearing, even with a spacer in place.

Also, note Caffeine Slug's picture. See the caliper? It comes from Wilwood totally BLACK. See all the silver surfaces? That's where he had to grind off brake caliper material. You tell me that's a bolt-on kit, and I'll show you Sno-Cones in hell.

 

Well, I went to 17's to avoid all of that hassle. I know.....more rotational mass etc, but I did not have any issue with clearance Clarance (sorry, couldn't resist ). Those are 17x7.5 Subzeros with a +45 offset








[Modified by canuck-mx6, 12:45 PM 3/25/2002]

 

Yeah, I was hoping more for something like that. That caliper that you have, Canuck, is much better suited to Hondas/Acuras than the huge Superlight IIA caliper that Caffeine Slug and I have. Your rotor choice (AEM?) is also better than what Caffeine and I have.

The only benefit to the SL IIA that I can see is that it has bigger bores and a stiffer body (there are two bridge bolts stiffening the entire body). The IIA also has a larger pad size. That's about it. Had I gotten the billet Dynalight calipers--I would have been OK.

Caffeine--how much did you pay for your pads? My Wilwood PolyMatrix D pads were $63/set!

 

mantic6t9 - I know that with most big brake kits you need larger wheels, but the big selling point of this kit was that it would fit under stock Integra wheels - he even specifically had a picture of the kit with a 95 GSR wheel over it.

TypeSH - I've called and emailed brian a number of times about this. He stopped by to drop off a new set of parts (I think he lives 20min away or so), and even took a look at the kit while I was installing it. He did admit that he got the kit out on the market too fast, and that I wasn't the only one having problems. A couple times in my emails to him I said that I would be happy with a refund, but he always replied with "well, why don't you try this...", and never offered a refund (and I can certainly see why he wouldn't want to).

PyroVTEC - I rememeber seeing the instructions where it says to rub the pad on the sidewalk for a couple minutes. There's no way in hell that would do it. Two minutes on a big belt sander, maybe. Any yeah, check that left LCA. That's probably not something you want to be grinding down. As for performance, it's pretty much like you said. It's better, but not $650 better by any means. With street tires I can lock up the fronts, and with race tires there's noticeable improvement, but you really have to get on the pedal hard to get that much braking force. I went with Porterfield R4S pads, and they were about $125 for the set, shipped.

canuck-mx6 - As pyro mentioned, those are the Dynalite II calipers. Smaller and about half the weight of the Superlite IIA calipers (I think 2.5lbs vs 4.5lbs). I know those are used in a number of fastbrakes kits, so I have no idea why he didn't use them here.

I had always heard good things about fastbrakes kits in the past, so I felt comfortable going with them at the time. I think I'll have a hard time buying things from anyone other than real companies for a while.

 

These are my RacingHart T6s (for sale, by the way) in 17" and I have been looking for a smaller wheel. I know that SSR Competions in 16" fit this Wilwood kit with no mods needed.




[Modified by 1, 12:37 PM 3/24/2002]

 

i have the 4 piston dynalite wilwood kit from fastbrakes and it fits my GSR rims barely! I think i have the 11" rotor here's a pic:

sorry kinda dirty and rusty


[Modified by pagong, 10:20 AM 3/25/2002]

 

Actually, if I had to do it all over again, I would not choose the AEM. I already had them, and their remarked Brembo's were just too expensive. I called wilwood, and got a spec sheet for their big brake kit. I found out the calipers would work with little modification, so I got them. I am happy with those calipers. Braking is noticeably improved over stock, and brake modulation is better as well. The calipers are relly light. I know that they have to be examined often if used for asphalt racing, but that is not really a problem.

 

1-- that's the Wilwood Big Brake kit, from Wilwood themselves, right? Yeah, that fits no problem, because that's the PROPER way to do this, not the half-assed version Caffeine and I have.

Pagong--if I'd have gone w/ those billet calipers, I think the 95 GSRs would have cleared just fine... Lemme guess, you took that picture after you washed your car huh...

Hey, I'd post pics of my ghetto setup if I knew how!

 

Ok. My turn w/my experience w/my Fastbrakes kit...

I bought the 11.75" FB kit that fits under a 15" wheel. This kit uses the superlite caliper and a Stoptech 2-piece rotor. Here's the pics of my kit: http://tiiite.b16a.com/Katman/fastbrakes/

I recently installed this kit about 2 weeks ago & ran into some annoying issues as well....

I'll begin with this...
I have a 92 civic hatchback, w/GSR brakes all round (that means 94+ integra front knuckle assembly), and 15x7 +45 offset Regamaster EVO wheels. Now, a friend and I put the kit on, and of course test fitted everything before actually test driving my car...

Issue 1 --Wheel(inside spoke) to caliper face contact...
With my EVO's put on, and WITHOUT the supplied 3mm spacer, the inside of my wheel's spokes made total contact with the Superlite calipers face. So then, we tried on ONE of the 3mm wheel spacers --- still made contact with the spoke & face of superlite caliper. Next, we tried putting both 3mm spacers on one side, and it got a little better but the inside of the wheel still made some contact. Now, if we had 3 of those 3mm spacers, per side, all clearance issues would be fine....but then the next issue rear's its ugly head...

Issue 2 -- wheel stud lenghth becomes too short!
Yep, I ran into this problem too. Even when i tried two of the 3mm spacers on one side, I noticed that I was running low on wheel stud threading which annoyed the **** outta me, cuz I figured I was gonna have the kit on and running -cherry- on the day of install! WRONG...

so now I had to improvise, cuz I really wanted to use this kit on my car. I actually tried some other wheels on since I had access to them at JDMHONDAPARTS.com.

I tried a set of Mugen RNR's which had a 45 offset too...those totally didn't work! The way the RNR spokes are rounded, totally hits the Superlite calipers face even if I ran THREE of those damn 3mm spacers! So, no luck those wheels. I then tried (FF johnny's) a set of 16" CPR's. Those seemed to work for me, even though I had one set of those 3mm spacers per side only.....but I still had issues with the inside of CPR's barely making skinning the superlites face. I actually left those one because the install was taking all day long and I had other stuff I had to do. I left those on my car for a few days and tested the out come.....
here's the aftermath of using the CPR's..


...as you can see, the very edge of the caliper's face is a bit worn. wack. I had a nice 'bang-bag-bang' sound for a while, until that wore down.

oh yeah, thanks to the offset of the CPR's I was using (+35 -- yikes!) with the added 3mm spacer, I wrecked my fender a little bit! rad! You can check out all of my 'issue' pics here:http://tiiite.b16a.com/Katman/fastbr...sues/index.htm

With the CPR's + the 1 pair of 3mm spacer per side, I had a decent amount of wheel stud threading left --but-- if I had another pair of spacers sandwiched (6mm total per side) it would have been a lot better. Caliper facial contact would have been resolved, but tire-to-fender issues would've been that take-over issue, and to solved that I would have to raise up my damn car!

thus, the que for issue #3 arises: rotor-to-lower control arm nut contact!
The following day after install, I emailed B.Hasty and told him about the issues + pictures I took. Brian then pointed out somthing that I did NOT catch. The inner side of the rotor's face, was making contact with my lower control arm's 17mm castle nut/lca area......


Brian says that has to do with my car being too low, which I now diagnosed as issue #3. The reason why the rotor hits the castle nut area is because of the domed-shape of the rotor's hat (the hat is the inner black piece of the 2 piece rotor). Its too domed, or angled inwards, which brings the actual rotor closer to the castle nut area. So, if a civic/integra with this kit on is too low, this will be an issue. If I raised my car, this issue would go away....but I duno how high I'd have to raise my car and I'm NOT gonna try it either.

in conclusion for the 11.75" under 15"wheel kit:
- Not every 15" wheel on the market was test fitted with this kit!
- Wheel offset has to be taken into account!
- Longer wheel studs are a MUST!
- Thicker wheel spacers are another MUST! (9-10mm suggested)
- If you're car is low (tire is tucking in fender) the stop-tech rotor inner side will rub on castle nut area! (there is a solution tho--see keep reading..)
- It looks like Brian didn't do enough testing with this kit before he released it to the public. Especially without testing the kit with many aftermarket wheels and certain heights of the car he used for the test fitting.

Don't get me wrong though!!!!
Even though I was under the impression that this kit was thoroughly tested and I assumed that it was all bolt-up n play, (I feel like a guinea pig now), I'm down to help Brian resolve these issues at hand-- and he's doing the same for me. So, he knows what the problems are with this kit thanks to my input to him. You should do the same too.

He seems to think he sent me the wrong caliper brackets and he's sending me some other ones I'll test out. He's also sending me a 'civic' hat for the 2 piece caliper. This 'civic' hat is not as domed as the one the current rotors I have now, or 'integra' hats, and should resolve the castle nut area contact issues. I've also, already purchased some ARP wheel studs which are the perfect added length I need to get this kit to work on my car. I have yet to installl them though...had no time lately. I still need to buy a thicker 9-10mm wheel spacer as well. In due time.

I was begining to doubt this kit, but then something dawned on me. I have integra brakes/knuckle+hub assemblies on my car. I asked Brian about the 11" big brake/wilwood (uses Dynalite 4pot calipers) kit he carries for the civic knuckle, and if the issues I'm having now would carry over to the civic kit if I decided to downgrade. He said 'no', because the rotor is different, but I can't remember if there would be a wheel stud length issue, though. I was considering slapping on a set of civic knuckles and going with that kit....but I'm holding off until I try out the 'civic' hat with the kit I currently have. As of a week ago, I put my stock GSR front brakes back on..

I'm sure once all of this tech/testing stuff is cleared up, Brian will put up some additional info for this kit and maybe other kits too, as far as thicker wheel spacers and longer wheel studs are a MUST.

wheeewwww...hot damn! that was a lot of typin!
Hope I don't sound like a rambling-idiot~!

anywhoot....that's my story so far with this FB kit.



[Modified by Katman, 1:11 AM 3/25/2002]

 

Katman did you ask brian if 1 piece rotors would help?

 

yep sure did. That's what the 11" brake kit uses. Sorry, forgot to mention that in the damn book i just wrote above ----^

 

well put Katman.

guess I am happy I stuck with 2 piece rotors and OEM ITR calipers for now....

I WAS jealous of those with this setup, but not now, no way......