took off my friend's valve cover, and the retainers were bet up. the edges looked like they got hammer or somthing.....

someone said thats called coil bind, but didnt explain how or what happen....

can someone PLZ explain what went wrong...
could he have bent any valves?
help plz..

edit: its a jdm type R head, with toda Ds, titanium retainers and toda springs

 

no ones heard of coil bind?

 

I can't say what's going on with your friends retainers without seeing it but coil bind is when the cam is at full lift the spring is completly compressed meaning the coil springs touch each other when the valve is fully open

 

Take a spring, any spring, and compress it until the the individual coils touch each other. The spring becomes solid, and no longer acts like a spring. That's coil bind.

 

ok so i guess coilbind isnt the reason, but the edges of the retainers look like they got hammered!.

their are no marks on the head so retainers didnt hit the head.

thought that the rockers might have hit but no marks on them either...

dont know whats going on...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSTEALTH GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so i guess coilbind isnt the reason, but the edges of the retainers look like they got hammered!.</TD></TR></TABLE>like the retainer from this post.....https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=440201 (pic #3 of retainer).

 

if you don't clear the VTEC (middle) rocker for 40-60thou clearances high lift cams (the retainer) may hit the rocker arm on vtec.... you must machine it.... as per "www.theoldone.com" go under "2.0 litre buildup" and scroll down he shows a good example...

high lift cams must have this done...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 3rdGteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">like the retainer from this post.....https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=440201 (pic #3 of retainer).</TD></TR></TABLE>
nah it doesnt look like that... it looks like a rat chewed on the edges all the way around on the intake side, a lil on the exhaust side... about a 1mm all the way around..

 

how long have you been using those retainers?
Titainium retainers need to be replaced after 15~20K miles because of galling.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=492432
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=455732

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HotWheelz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you don't clear the VTEC (middle) rocker for 40-60thou clearances high lift cams (the retainer) may hit the rocker arm on vtec.... you must machine it.... as per "www.theoldone.com" go under "2.0 litre buildup" and scroll down he shows a good example...

high lift cams must have this done...</TD></TR></TABLE>
intake cam 12.9 lift......... but non of the rockers have any marks or scrachs on them...
exhaust cam 11.9..... the exhuast side, only 3 ( out of the 8) retainers had the edges fucked up too.


Modified by TeamSTEALTH GSR at 11:14 AM 5/27/2003

 

about 4 hours of brake-in ( under idle)
an hour on the dyno
and 2 hours of racing (road racing)...

he revs 9200... but would that have anything to do with it?

 

well that sucks!
..pictures?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChiBoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take a spring, any spring, and compress it until the the individual coils touch each other. The spring becomes solid, and no longer acts like a spring. That's coil bind.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what he said

 

could the valve guides be in the way .....12.9 is pretty big lift......mabye they have to be shaved down ....

 

no ... ti's the rockers that haven't been cleared...

if the retainers have small dents.. it's basically the vtec rocker arm... when locked has higher lift and duration and what happens.. when the cam is pushing the rocker downwards (engaged) it get's closer to the retainers.. to a point if you don't have 40thousands or so.. they will hit.. so fast and hard it will dent the titanuim on the edge...

you must grind the rockers individually if not it will happen again......

 

damn u guys are on point

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HotWheelz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no ... ti's the rockers that haven't been cleared...

if the retainers have small dents.. it's basically the vtec rocker arm... when locked has higher lift and duration and what happens.. when the cam is pushing the rocker downwards (engaged) it get's closer to the retainers.. to a point if you don't have 40thousands or so.. they will hit.. so fast and hard it will dent the titanuim on the edge...

you must grind the rockers individually if not it will happen again......

</TD></TR></TABLE>
so is the rocker arm stronger them the titanium retainer ? or what... cus the rocker arms have to sign of contact with anything.


Modified by TeamSTEALTH GSR at 11:37 AM 5/27/2003

 

wouldn't you weaken the retainer by grinding it? maybe cause much bigger problems?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamSTEALTH GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so is the rocker arm stronger them the titanium retainer ? or what... cus the rocker arms have to sign of contact with anything.


Modified by TeamSTEALTH GSR at 11:37 AM 5/27/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Titanium is a rather soft metal. Its chosen because its lightweight and has excellent thermal properties. They are a wear item however.

 

found the problem guys...

"ROCKER ARMS"!!!!

****!!! ........... after taking the whole head apart, we saw that it was the vtec rocker arm hitting the retainer... too much lift...
what would one do in this position.?? grind the rocker arms a lil? or retainers? rocker arm would seen safer, but any advice?

 

Got any pics? I have the Toda "D"s, so I am very curious about your problem, and the solution.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Got any pics? I have the Toda "D"s, so I am very curious about your problem, and the solution.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont have any pics right now, but ill try to take some before the head goes to the shop tomorrow... if i dont get any pics... ill be sure to post a solution

 

ITR LMAs y0 and you have to shave the rocker arms on the bottom to allow for the 14mm or so of lift at the valve with lash... YIKES retainer to rocker arm clearance at high RPM...

 

The only time I could see the mid rocker hitting the retainers is when the car is not in VTEC. In VTEC, the rocker arms are locked together, so the valves (and consequently the retainers) would be pushed down and out of the path of the mid rocker.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b19coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only time I could see the mid rocker hitting the retainers is when the car is not in VTEC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So could that be caused by bad LMA's? When not in VTEC, if the LMA is bad, the middle arm could be flopping around. Would it be loose enough to hit the retainers? If so, this could be a new caution for those of us who know we have bad LMA's.