I caught wind of this thread in the "R" forum, but thought it would be of interest here. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=455732

Since I have a set of Crower's retainers in the head sitting in the garage waiting to go in, this topic is of interest to me.

I've learned a number of things in the past few days which may be of interest to you all.

First, I did talk to a local race engine builder and he is (yes) used to treating the Ti retainers as a wear item -- he couldn't speak to miles, but instead spoke in terms of number of races (seems like it was just a half-dozen or so). This was news to me, and of some concern since I'm building this car for fun, daily driving, *and* running down to the strip...

Second, he mentioned casidiam as a possible coating, but when I looked into it more I found it's about 1/3 the hardness of the titanium nitride (TiN) dplatt mentioned in the original post. So, there are alternatives but probably not better ones? Brycoat actually has two choices, and even offers them together (email attached at the end of this note).

Third, however, I did call Brian Crower to ask about his retainers. It seems they've paid attention to the discussions (like this one) and concerns about the product and have updated the material they use to make them harder. The ones pictured by dplatt (in the thread listed above) are the older ones. Brian told me they've been shipping the new ones for (approx) the last six months. Evidently, the material is harder to work with, but it was important to get longer life out of them. The new ones are labelled ti-17, and are meant to meet the needs of those of us who use them in street cars and not race only..

Since I had mine installed by the shop doing the headwork (DPR), I checked mine, and they are the new ones. So, I'm planning to try them as is and watch them to see how they wear rather than sending them out for TiN coating.

Ti retainers have been hyped for so long... If this is a sleeper problem, then it'll be good to keep an eye on over time.

Regards,

Mark

--

E-Mail response to my inquiry of BryCoat (***** Culkar <wculkar@brycoat.com&gt:

Hello Mark, thank you for your inquiry.

We coat retainers of stainless or titanium with titanium nitride (TiN) for $3.80ea with $100 minimum. You can also consider having any of the following coated with either TiN or WS2 a dry film lubricant that works great with wet lubes. I am attaching some information for your review.

Piston rings
Camshaft, Bearing & Gears
Connecting Rods
Lifters
Rockers
Valves, Springs, Locks & Seat
Crankshaft & Gears
Timing Chain
Shock Shafts & Springs
Transmission & Drive Train

We accept major credit cards, ship COD or company PO with references.

Thank you for your interest in our services. We look forward to working with you. Please contact me with any questions, comments or concerns.

W.F.(*****) Culkar
BryCoat, Inc.

976 4th Street North
Safety Harbor, FL 34695 USA

800-989-8788 Phone

727-726-1000 Fax

See us on the web @ http://www.brycoat.com

An ISO9001:2000 & AS9100A:2001 registered company


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Silbernagel [mailto:marks@pacifier.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 8:33 PM
To: brycoat@brycoat.com
Subject: TiN Coating engine parts

Dear BryCoat,

I am interested in the application of TiN to the titanium retainers in an engine I'm building, and other items if it makes sense (valve stems?).

What would this cost, and what might make sense to coat besides the retainers?

Thanks in advance,

Mark Silbernagel