I wrote this article in reply to someone asking about heat wraps on there turbo.
Heat is the back bone of your engine making power with out it your engine would be a big paper weight. Been able to harness the heat in you engine is a great way to improve power, VE and overall efficiency of your engine. This is why the tuning of A/F ratio has such an impact on power. It all has to do with the increase of heat inside the combustion camber. The leaner the A/F mix the hotter it is going to be. Obviously to lean is bad! But you get what im trying to say. When the spark plug ignites the A/F mixture in the cylinders it is the rapid increase in heat which causes the pressure rise in the cylinder which in turn pushes the piston down. 1/3 of the heat generated is used to create work to rotate you crank, 1/3 of the heat is dissipated into the piston crown, cylinder walls and cylinder head and the last 1/3 is expelled out your engine through the exhaust, That is the beauty of a turbo charger been able to harness the 1/3 of wasted heat and turn it into power. The more heat that is trapped in the correct places the more power you can make.

Ceramic Coatings

For instance Ceramic Coatings on the piston tops, valves, turbo exhaust
housing, manifold and downpipe, intake manifold, boost piping are great ways to stop heat from dissipating off or into these components. Coatings on your turbo parts will increase turbo spool as there is more heat to generate more work on the exhaust turbine. Coatings on your piston tops and valves will increase the amount of heat expelled out your exhaust system due to the fact that less heat will be absorbed into the metal which in turn again creates more spool on the turbo. It also allows you to run closer piston to bore clearance due to less heat in the piston and less expansion of it. Coating the inside and outside of the intake manifold and using a hondata intake gasket is another great way to improve power. As im sure we all know cooler air is denser which is good for making more power. The reason for this is that when the denser air mixes with the fuel and is ignited the air and fuel molecules are packed closer together which allows for a more stable burn rate and better flame propagation. Then on the other side of the scale if you have a hot intake charge when the fuel is mixed with the air it will evaporate into smaller droplets thus increase the burn rate of the A/F mix when ignited. Fast burn rates can become unstable very quickly! Basically you want the A/F charge to burn slowly and steadily from the center of the combustion chamber to the combustion chamber walls. If not there is an increased chance of detonation and pre-ignition. I have seen tests done on completely stock engines ceramic coating certain components and increasing horsepower by 8%– 12% you take that to your 400HP turbo motor and you are looking at 40 – 50hp plus the added benefit of decreased under hood temps, intake temps, component wear, corrosion resistance, fuel economy.

Heat Wraps

And yes you should wrap your manifold and downpipe and get a turbo heat bag for the exhaust housing. The downside to wrapping these components is the increased
corrosion it will create due to it trapping water. Ceramic coating is the better option but I guess it’s what your wallet can afford. I could go on about this subject for ever. It basically boils down to the basics of controlling heat, making it go where you want it to and keeping it away from what you want it not to get to. There are so many little simple things people, can do to improve the thermodynamics of there engines if they just look at there setup and think about it!! There are plenty books that are dedicated to this topic which can be found under thermodynamics of an internal combustion engine. Well I hope you enjoyed this article. More to come!!





Modified by steven_highet at 6:49 PM 3/31/2008

 

Nice, Lots of info on this post especially good info on the ceramic coatings, maybe I should take note. Just wondering did you get a hondata intake gasket for your im? I never noticed one. I think you accidently posted two identical articles.

 

Lots of bullshit misinformation in that post. I was excited to see "Heat transfer" in the title, then greatly disappointed to see that you obviously don't understand it.

"The blind leading the blind." That should be honda-tech's official motto.

 

Well why dont you enlighten me then......since you are so clued up!

 

How do cermaic coatings have nothing to do with Heat Transfer? And what would be the misinformation in this thread?

Heat transfer occurs only when there is a temperature difference between one component and another . Heat is transferred by conduction, convection and radiation, which may occur separately or in combination. Allowing a component to recieve or not recieve heat has everything to do with heat transfer and controlling it. And by controlling it yes you can make HP! if thats what you think is the miss informations then you are very wrong!

 

Coated intake manifold? Follow the heat transfer. Certainly the cylinder head is hotter than the ambient underhood air. Heat conducts from the head to the manifold, where it convects into the IM airstream as well as the underhood air. Coating it will ensure that as much heat as possible convects into your intake airstream.

Exhaust wrap traps in moisture? Only if you live in constant humidity and rainfall. Certainly no moisture resides in the wrap once the engine is operating.

My contribution:

Insulating TB gaskets are worthless. The goal of controlling heat transfer is to keep the heat in the engine. Once it's traveled to the IM, it will convect away regardless. Insulated TB gaskets simply keep more heat in the IM, where it will convect into the airstream at a faster rate. Either way, the same amount of heat will transfer to your airstream.

Carbon is an excellent thermal insulator. The piston tops and exhaust ports of your engine are covered with carbon, producing a free coating for you. Thermal coating companies often promote power gains "up to 5%" swapping from uncoated to coated pistons. I'd bet money that their control pistons are brand new and haven't accumulated a nice carbon layer yet.

Metal alloys have much lower thermal conductivities than pure elements. A great compliment to using a Hondata IM gasket would be to use stainless studs and nuts to bolt the IM onto the head. And if you're going to use a Hondata gasket, you'd better make damn sure that it's perfectly port matched to the head and IM flange. If not, your thermal control gains will be offset by your losses due to flow restriction and turbulence.

 

First off you didnt negate any of the points I made in the original article. Secondly you should be careful of calling people blind and not understanding something cause it just makes you sound arrogant! Thirdly nothing I said was misleading or bullshit!

What do you base you info on Fact or Thoery?

The infomation I posted on Thermal Coatings I have seen them first hand in action create more horse power!

1. Ceramic Coating the IM inside and out will isolate it from underhood temps and the hondata gasket will stop heat transfer from the head.

2. Ok maybe i should of worded the wxhaust wrap moisture point better. The wrap will slightly extend the moisture contact with the manifold. Pus its insolation works more along the lines of an oven. It is a good thing for non DD if you can not afford CC's but not for a DD.

3. I never said anything about TB gaskets!

4. Well there you go you siad it. The coatings companys make 5% with out carbon so that means that the coating protectition would increase once carbon builds up. And using carbon as an insolator is stupid as any motor is gonna have it anyway. You can not compare Ceramic Coating and Carbon!

5. I do like your idea of using stainless studs and nuts!! I never thought of that. And yes anyone who doesnt port match all there gaskets anyway shouldnt be building engines.

Anymore info you wish to add? Beats talking about the same old on here!

 

Anyone else have any info on this topic?

 

heat wrapping doesnt absorb water, 1000*f+ and your telling me water still resides on the manifold? Only downside to heatwrapping is the differences and stresses to the coated/wrapped vs the non coated/wrapped.

Ceramic is a bunch of BS.

 

LMAO! Ceramic Coating is in the same catagory as Methenol Injection, Intercoolers, Intercooler NO Sprayers, Cryogenics i guess all that is also aload of BS then?

The water issue has nothing to do when the motor is running "duh!!!"

 

Why are you still posting the part about header wrap when I showed you this? You read it, right?

http://www.centuryperformance.....html

A GOOD article finally explaining heat wrap and why it's bad. Guess what, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRAPPING MOISTURE

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off you didnt negate any of the points I made in the original article. Secondly you should be careful of calling people blind and not understanding something cause it just makes you sound arrogant! Thirdly nothing I said was misleading or bullshit!

What do you base you info on Fact or Thoery?

The infomation I posted on Thermal Coatings I have seen them first hand in action create more horse power!

1. Ceramic Coating the IM inside and out will isolate it from underhood temps and the hondata gasket will stop heat transfer from the head.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Okay, why don't I just stop you there. You want to coat both sides of the intake manifold? I'm not going to waste my time picking apart your posts. You obviously don't understand heat transfer. Good effort though.

 

no i think you dont!! Its easy to say oh thats BS but you dont even back it up.

 

Yes i read it and fully uinderstand it and fully agree!

 

Because I don't want to waste my time. Coating both sides of the IM creates equivalent convection rates on both sides. It's the same as having no coating at all. The problem is that you're falsely assuming that the Hondata gasket is stopping heat from conduction to the manifold.

You have two options for the IM:

1. Coat only the inside (good luck with that). The heat is already in the IM metal. You don't want it to enter the air stream, so you insulate the inside edge to force the outside to convect more.

2. Build an IM out of a material less thermally conductive than aluminum (which is almost anything). Take a cue from the LSx engines. Or, if you're a baller, get an AIR manifold.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LMAO! Ceramic Coating is in the same catagory as Methenol Injection, Intercoolers, Intercooler NO Sprayers, Cryogenics i guess all that is also aload of BS then?

The water issue has nothing to do when the motor is running "duh!!!" </TD></TR></TABLE>

its a coating, its not alchemy.

what about thermal cycling?

So your saying my SS mani is doomed because when I park my car and it rains, the moisture will destroy it, because its not running?

Sure if I dont start my car for 3 weeks I will get corrosion on the aluminum block. Wrapped or not, the mosture evaps in seconds when you start your car

 

I surrender!!

Obvioulsy everyone is more interested in say " thats BS this is BS" rather than discussion.

CC willl reduce the effects of thermal cycling. Or better said it will allow for a more linear graph when the highs and lows of the temps are plotted out of that specific component.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I surrender!!

Obvioulsy everyone is more interested in say " thats BS this is BS" rather than discussion.

CC willl reduce the effects of thermal cycling. Or better said it will allow for a more linear graph when the highs and lows of the temps are plotted out of that specific component.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Something with a higher heat transfer rate will have higher inconsistancies.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigsyke &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Something with a higher heat transfer rate will have higher inconsistancies.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes no sense!! CC reduces heat tranfer rates!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by steven_highet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That makes no sense!! CC reduces heat tranfer rates!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ceramic is a heat exchanger. its used as a peltzer, your going against NASA now.

And its porous, so it absorbs moisture.

 

CC is a barrier! It conducts heat at a lower rate than metal. Obviously heat is tranfser between it but at alot slower rate!

Please explain Peltzer? i am not familiar with that term.

Moisture will not play a part in certain CC circumstances. Which one are you refering to?

 

ceramics could be porous like silicate meaning moisture can be obsorbed in a sealed setting, and then transfered somewhere you dont want it.

Peltzer is a reaction where heat is exchanged between surfaces, meaning if its hot on one side, its cooler on the otherside.

Heat is dissapated from the faster moving side to the slower.

Ceramic is lightweight and brittle, meaning the molys can slow down quicker, than vs and solid lead pipe.

Think of it as a lightweight flywheel, quick to exchange energy, quick to stop it.

 

Did I just hear you guys say carbon on your pistons and valves is a good thing? Why do you think gas manufacturers advertise how well there fuels keep away carbon buildup. wtf is wrong with you people, carbon creates hot spots which can lead to engine damage and keeps valves from closing all the way and sticking. In your lil link the author is speaking of 700 hp nascars that run 200 miles at 7500 rpm. Trust me I dont think any of us will be attempting that. He then compares towels in a dryer to a exhaust manifold enduring 100 laps at full throttle. Have you ever seen a header warped due to a exhaust wrap on a dd, I havnt. Convection in the most general terms refers to the movement of currents within fluids (i.e. liquids, gases and rheids). The heat coming from the im is radiating to the air inside your im once it reaches the air stream it then is convected throughout the air. Conduction occurs in solids, convection occurs in liquads and gases. What you shouldve said was heat radiats into your airstream.
Aluminum has a specific heat of .22 calories per gram celcius and a conductive rate of .5 calories per centimete squarded which is pretty good consedering. It also is corrisive resistant, light, STRONG, and fairly cheap. You could use other materials that are better insulators but will it compare to aluminum in all these other aspects.

Modified by Sr420Det at 6:32 PM 4/1/2008


Modified by Sr420Det at 6:34 PM 4/1/2008


Modified by Sr420Det at 6:37 PM 4/1/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sr420Det &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did I just hear you guys say carbon on your pistons and valves is a good thing? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you think gas manufacturers advertise how well there fuels keep away carbon buildup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It perpetuates their scam. But it's got Techron!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> wtf is wrong with you people </TD></TR></TABLE>

We went to school. Well, I did.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> carbon creates hot spots which can lead to engine damage and keeps valves from closing all the way and sticking. </TD></TR></TABLE>

There's a big difference between a light film of carbon and a huge caked up mess caused by running 11.5:1 AFRs all the time. Look at the exhaust valves and exhaust ports on a healthy NA motor; that's healthy carbon.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Convection in the most general terms refers to the movement of currents within fluids (i.e. liquids, gases and rheids). The heat coming from the im is radiating to the air inside your im once it reaches the air stream it then is convected throughout the air. Conduction occurs in solids, convection occurs in liquads and gases. What you shouldve said was heat radiats into your airstream.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the lesson Professor Obvious. Too bad most of what you said is wrong. Radiation has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The effects of radiation are so miniscule they aren't even worth discussing. Heat enters the airstream almost exclusively through forced convection. Go back to school.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aluminum has a specific heat of .22 calories per gram celcius and a conductive rate of .5 calories per centimete squarded which is pretty good consedering. It also is corrisive resistant, light, STRONG, and fairly cheap. You could use other materials that are better insulators but will it compare to aluminum in all these other aspects.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ROFL!! Specific heat? Conductive rate?!?!?! Are you trying to sound smart, or just dicking with me? We are only concerned with two things here:

Heat conducted to the IM through the head:

Q = kAdT/L; k = thermal conductivity of aluminum = 250 W/m*K

Heat convected to the airstream from the IM:

Q = hAdT; h = heat transfer coefficient of aluminum (varies)


Nice try though.




Modified by Legion at 8:05 PM 4/1/2008

 

Thanks