ok. This is a really dumb question...BUT I have to ask.

i put my head back on my block today. Set the block to TDC, and set the cams to TDC. As I was putting the timing belt on the camgears. when I rotated the cams 360 degrees....the cams still showed TDC, yet the crank pullet showed a littttle past TDC.

Is this because the crank pulley is larger (perhaps....1:16 times the size of cam gear?) and spins slower in comparison to the gears?

sorry for the stupid question, just making sure

 

No. That would be catastrophic, as the more your engine rotated, the more out of time the crank would get to the cams.
Most likely, you put the belt on wrong, or you tensioned the belt wrong. do it again, and good luck.

 

yeah, I had to put mine on 3 times before I got it right. My helms told me to put the belt on, turn the motor over by hand 5 or 6 revolutions and check it again. take a look at how it gets tensioned after you spin it VS how it looks when you put it on and you'll see what you have to do.

on my SOHC, the cam gear has 40 teeth, so if the belt is off by one tooth, its 9 degrees off. thats pretty obvious. I'm not sure on the DOHC motors though...

mine never lined up 100% perfectly even with the timing belt on it from the factory, so I guess a very small amount off is alright. but I mean a VERY small ammount. almost invisable except to the perfectionist

 

I dont think I explained that too well.

There are horiontal marks on the cam gears. They show TDC. There is a white mark in the crankshaft pulley. That shows TDC.

I put the belt on when all three of those (cam gear, cam gear, crank pulley) showed TDC.

The belt has wonderful tension, just like new.


I rotated the crank so that the cam gears each rotated one whole rotation (which they did perfectly in unison) and the crankshaft was just a tad past the white TDC mark.

I rotated the crank again so the gears took a whole revolution. The crank pulley showed a little past where it was before.

How can the timing belt be on wrong? I put on everything at TDC....




[Modified by B18EG6, 10:12 AM 1/10/2003]

 

so no matter how many times I turn it, all three should ALWAYS be at TDC together?

 

yes

it can be wrong because of the tension. at least on mine (F23) you push the tensioner down all the way so that there is no tension on the belt and lock it in place. remove the old belt and replace it with the new one. when you put it on and release the tensioner, there is a portion of the belt that is not tensioned properly. you turn the motor over to take any slack out of it and to get the tension set properly. if the slack in the belt is in the wrong place, you are shortening one section of the belt in relation to the distance between the crank and the cams. thats where your "slippage" can come from.

I found that on one side, it runs directly from the cam gear down to the crank, that side had to be pretty tight without the tensioner released. and any slack before the tensioner was released had to be on the other side where the water pump and tensioner pully is.

I've got a spring loaded automatic tensioner. I don't know about the B18. it might be different. I'm not certain if it would make a difference or not. I've never worked on any honda motor other than a F series.

HTH

 

raaar I dont think I can do this then. I cant take off the crank pulley bolt, just wont budge

This is really frusturating me, I cut the shat out of my hands on the cam gears, block, everything you can think of....trying to get the belt on.

I understand it would be loads easier to do if the crank pulley was off,,,and the lower timing belt cover was off...but I cant get that off.

How do you keep the cams from moving when they are at TDC? my lobes begin to push down the rockers jussssst a little, so they knock themselves out of tdc. is this because I need a valve adjustment? If that is the case, I broke a damn flathead screwdriver when trying to do that.

How do you do such flawless timing belts

 

how did you even get the timing belt off without removeing the lower cover?????

I could not get the crank pully bolt to budge either. I paid the guy at the corner garage to break it loose with the 3/4 impact, snug it back up and drove home and went from there. I guess thats kind of out of the question since your TB is already off

FWIW - he told me that there is no way in hell to get it off without the tool. I know people here have done it, so it is possible, but you might want to consider buying it. You really need to get the crank pully bolt off. I can not imagine how difficult a time you are having right now with it still on....

 

haha....very difficult. Im sitting here anxiously looking for solutions.

I have a 1/2" impact gun....but its not good for SHAT..sometimes wont even break off tough lug nuts, so I highly doubt it will get the infamous impossibly hard crank bolt to budge.

I didnt entirey remove the belt. Slipped if off the cams and kept tension on it. I really didnt expect for this to be effective, but I was hoping it might work.

I would have no problem having someone else to help me out, but its not like I could drive my car somewhere.

IF I could get that damn bolt off, I would be a happy camper...then all I would have to worry about would be smashing my hands up with the tensioner and getting it to fit in such a snug place.

 

its not tensioned enough:
1) line everything up like you said you did BUT the slack should be ont he tensioner side(intake cam side for b-series)
2) pull tensioner up (you have the 14mm bolt loosened, RIGHT ?) with a wire hanger with hook on the end
3) when the belt tension on the intake side is stiff enough, you tighten the 14mm bolt, torqu to around 40 ft-lbs I beleive
4) spin it around and it should line up if the belt is tight enough

greg

 

I cannot get to the tensioner. I do not have the crank pulley removed, and cant access the tensioner because the lower cover is in the way

I cant get the crank bolt off, thats my problem I guess. If it were off, it would be tons easier huh

 

there should be a small black tab you can pull out to access the tensioner with the cover on. Honda could make life a lot easier if they put white marks on their belts so theyd match up with timing marks, It would remove all guesswork. And it would be nice if they told us how many belt teeth should between the cam and crank, etc.

 

Yeah, you don't have to remove the lower cover to access the tensioner bolt Though be careful with that tensioner bolt, make sure you have your socket lined up straight before attempting to loosen/tighten it because they are easily rounded; trust me I know Good Luck man!

 

you can reach the lever on the tensioner which is attached to the bottom of the spring with the clothes wire hanger from the top wiht the lower covers still attached. Hook wire hanger onto that level and pull straight up and hold while you check belt tension then tighten.

Greg

 

Ok I found that rubber grommet thing. Loosen this bolt to ease the tension correct?

Then this tecnique you recommend with a clothes hanger...What do I use the hanger for? to keep tension on the tensioner? Where do I approach, from the intake side of exhaust side?

 

Damn it's a PITA sometimes w/o the extra hands too ..... But yeah like evryone pretty much allrady said it.... Your tension is way off ..... I had to redo my T-Belt like 4-Times before I got help from some xtra hands to keep the CAM gears and Crank from "slightly" turning while slipping belt ON..... and even with the tensioner loosened and down as far it goes it was SNUG to put Belt on ...

BTW when you slip belt on, then count (3) Three teeth on the Cam gears to tension properly the bolt to 40-ft/lbs

(Make sure you rotate "Counterclockwise" otherwise yoour doing it totally wrong!)

Here's some pics: (Reference ... I just posted these for some else)

CAMS (Looked funky pointing inwards a bit @ TDC ... but I've seen this before on other B-Series)



Dist. points to "TDC" on #1 Cyl.



Oil Pump "Mark" right on center with Crank Sprocket @ "TDC"

 

You are not alone .... Believe it or not my 600-Ft/lbs Impact Gun would not even remove my Crank Bolt for CHIT ........


The trick to it was to put the car back down. Place the car into Second Gear or Third and Brakes applied (again use a friend here). Use a 1/2" Breaker bar (or long rachet will work, like me) and you'll see that Bolt come out like nothing .....

...... again ... go figure ?
.
.
.
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[Modified by Honda4CX-R, 9:29 PM 1/10/2003]

 

you too huh...

 

[QUOTE]Ok I found that rubber grommet thing. Loosen this bolt to ease the tension correct?

Then this tecnique you recommend with a clothes hanger...What do I use the hanger for? to keep tension on the tensioner? Where do I approach, from the intake side of exhaust side?

dude...please stop before you damage anything. No offense..If you didnt know bout this bolt then you shouldnt be doing a timing belt.

out of cusiosity....what kind of timing belt/motor water pump are you using?

 

to properly tension a b series you:
- put the crank and camgears at tdc
-loosen 14mm bolt on tensioner
-rotate motor counter clock wise for three teeth on the cam gear (not the crank)
-torque 14mm to 40ftlbs and your are done.

that is assuming the spring inside the cover with the rubber gromet over it is hooked up properly. If you have adjustable gears make sure they are zeroed out before you roll the motor over the three teeth.

That spring is an auto tensioner, that is why it is there. I wouldn't recommend using a coat hanger since you don't know how much tension to pull.

Also is the head milled? If so the crank will hit tdc a little before the two slashes on the cam gears line up. When the cam gears line up the crank tdc will be about 1/8" on the plastic cover past.


[Modified by turbohonda, 10:02 PM 1/10/2003]

 

ok I have another friend coming over around 3 to help me.

I got the head resurfaced, would that count as milling?

the directions you gave are a little vague
when you say rotate the cam gears three teeth....is this independent from the crank? or rather rotate the whole assembly three teeth alll together, then tighten the tensioner?


also- my cams never look like this. That does look rather funky
thanks for looking
sebastian


[Modified by B18EG6, 1:58 PM 1/11/2003]

 

Correct !!!

That's the way mine looked like @ TDC before removing belt on a 40K engine ???... go figure ?

When I put the NEW T-Belt I corrected the CAMS a bit with a little valve adjustment.

 

Holy **** **** its finally on. I sure as hell didnt do it...I dont know HOW my friend Joe did it, but he did!

Thanks for all of your help!

 

Glad to hear you're done with it >>>