since when does floating a valve have anything to do with the type of block the head is on?? makes no sense. othwerwise, if u wanna rev the **** out of the motor, invest a C note and have the oil squirters installed. otherwise set a nice safe redline, like under 7500 rpm

 

It has to do with the block when valve clearance is an issue in the 1st place. Not to mention over revving. I mean tru it doesnt matter but it only add more worries to the problem. But hey its everyones choice right...some people just have to make a wise choice 1st time cause of the money.

 

Ok, Im sorry but I think Spoon is being blamed for ALOT of Misinformation that was from Speed Factor Not Spoon.

They (Speed Factor) Should have told you exactly What Spoon Parts come with the Spoon Built Engine.

Also $8000 Is Still ALOT Cheaper than what a USDM Crate Engine Went for ( plus from Spoon your getting the harness, ECU, Higher compression, Half of a header, And Misc Spoon parts, Plus the fact that its been blueprinted and balanced. )

Lastly I would just like to point out that Spoon NO LONGER sells the engines this way, Its Now either a Short block or Long Block, and its STILL Cheaper than its US Counterpart.

I have respect for Katman, But I definately dont agree with this post

 

soo lsvtec is not a good route..unless it is build totally correctly?

 

i know some guys who went to japan an bought 3 spoon crate engines last month. they arent here yet though, still in the container somwhere.

 

you're telling me that a SPOON engine , $8000 or so, is worth buying? hahah....right. So many blind people in this Honda scene.

Dylan paid $8000 for an engine that barely scratched 180hp to the wheels on the dyno. If you ask me he royally got fucked. BFD if it was balanced and blueprinted by Spoon - that's great the motor will last a good while - but what the hell type of engine setup was Spoon selling to speed fuctor?

Yes, I agree with you that Speed Factor is at fault for this muck up, but it still rips at my conscience as to WHY was Spoon selling this type of engine setup...

Also it was NOT a high-comp engine. Again' it was a JDM SiR-G/ block+pistons with stock B16A head. Now, I don't if you've ever seen a JDM SiR-G/P72 piston, but it's pretty ****** disgraceful! Imagine a US GSR/P72 pistons with a slight....and I mean SLIGHT dome, along with a B16A comubstion chamber = low comp.
I'd say Dylans' compression was around 10.2-10.3 CR.

The motor did come from Spoon, yes, and what the hell were they smokin' (opium perhaps) when they sold this particular one to Speed Factor?

Well..
I've recently had my eyes opened about this Honda scene. All this money people spend on upgrades. type-r engines, spoon,mugen, etc...
All this just to barely make 200hp NA, if you're lucky.
And then you have the LS/B20-vtec people who spend a grizznip to get over 200hp - but then the motor doesn't last long (duhh unless its done right - which is still a lame statement)

Yes, it's fun to drive an FF Honda but is it really worth spending soo much it?

I think it's all overated - everything for Honda's.

No wonder toy Honda's are a joke in Japan -
Nissan, Toyota, Mistubishi, Subaru are the top Automotive manufacturers there!

[Modified by Katman, 9:54 AM 11/26/2001]


[Modified by Katman, 11:31 AM 11/26/2001]

 

WOW!!!! An enlightening statement from KATMAN himself. WHEW!!! What has this world came to? Even the KAT is potentially giving up on the big red Hs.

 

hehe..yep..
Never owned a red H, never will...

 

Yes I am, Im saying that if you have a Honda that you want to swap a B18 into and you want it new then your better off getting one from spoon with a few extras, CHEAPER than you could from your local Acura dealer. My eyes are wide open, I think some people just got a bad taste of a product through a bad dealer.
Did you ever think that at the time getting a B18C3 or B18CR from Spoon was an option? And MAYBE Speed Factor Could get that for cheaper and thought you wouldnt realize it?
And I will mention it again SPOON NO LONGER Sells A CRATE ENGINE, Its either a short block or long block with either JDM ITR pistons or Spoons Forged pistons with 11.7:1 compression and the base JDM Long block is only $4750

180hp to the wheels for a STOCK JDM SIR Engine, with a JDM SIR ECU that isnt even tuned for our fuel. I would say thats pretty good seeing that Most USDM ITR's with a bit more compression avg about 165 whp. 180whp would equate to about 207 at the crank (adding in 15% loss from drivetrain) Pretty good since Spoon Only rates their base engine at 200hp. What were you expecting a full out Spoon Race engine?
And I will say it again Since Speed Factor had such a bad reputation HOW do you know that they didnt just go ahead and order you a Spoon SIR engine instead of a JDM ITR Engine, for reasons of making a few extra bucks? You said that Eric Bauer ran the Serial #'s with Spoon and it came up as an orde put in by Speed Factor for a B18C3 If they ordered that How is that Spoons Fault?

More Like when you recieved the engine WHY didnt you ask Speed Factor WHY they gave you a B18C3 instead of what you ordered? That would be like going to the Local speed shop, ordering an AEM for your Civic and getting one for an Accord? You dont go blaming AEM do you? NO you blame the dumbass middle man who screwed up the order SO why are you Blaming Spoon?

SO WHY ARE YOU JDMHONDAPARTS.com ? If you think Hondas are only toys?

Sorry but your post makes No sense what so ever You were screwed over by a shop so you blame the Manufacturer instead of the shop, and then someone who works/owns a site for Honda Cars and parts is saying that Hondas are little toys that arent worth putting money into

 

Why the hell you stickin up for Spoon soo much? they don't pay you!
Why even go on defending them, when I KNOW the problem was Speed Factor?
That's a given man...

If you read my original story, I DID say Dylan got fucked by Speed Factor....that's a given. But then again, who the hell else back in 97 had a Spoon crate engine? no one I knew.....so we didn't know what exactly this motor had from spoon, besides the parts that came in Spoon bags and what was on the receipt - I didnt view the receipt either - so I don't know what it said exactly about what type of motor it was suppose to be w/internals. But i do know that Dylan ordered a Spoon prepped ITR engine and the "R" part was missing =/

My rant about Spoon and JDM aftermarket HONDA parts is that it's all overated!
Why spend soo damn much on barely making a couple horsey's?
Yes, they have nice things.....magnetic oil drain plugs, oil caps, etc. ..haha..
CALIPERS that cost $1700 ****** dollars...

You know what I'm saying and don't try to ignore it.

Yes, I work with sheng, he's an old friend, and thats why I help him with JDMHONDAPARTS.com - its a business - not my weekend fun thing to do.
My motives are bit different than his though when it comes to JDM things.

Don't get wrong. I love racing my FF Honda and I'm not getting rid of it or anything. I'm just sick of the JDM this and that hype lately...and all the gimmicks for JDM Honda aftermarket parts that cost an arm & leg for next to nothing in HP.


[Modified by Katman, 12:13 PM 11/26/2001]

 

why would you pay 8 dollars for a damn bigmac...everything is just to damn expensive ove there.....you can buy quality parts from an american manufacturer for less money...but not for long...they see we are willing to buy a header for a 1000 bucks..chit..hytech's gonna get some of that action too..

 

You have to see it from his point of view for just a sec...

He sells Spoon goods on his website, and by you criticizing Spoon (somewhat) in the post. It might hurt $poon $ale$...

 

Why am I sticking up for Spoon So much? Because I respect them and the work that they do, Also their products are Top notch.

When I see posts about Spoon Engines I do get a bit carried away, Only because I have seen Sooo much misinformation out there (plus the phone calls of people asking about Spoon engines with Turbo kits for their Civics dont help matters Damn FNF)

At first you were putting it That it was Spoons fault that you got the engine you did, The question I am asking is How do you know that The shop didnt just order the B18C3. The thing about the Spoon Engine making 180whp and you being dissapointed I just didnt get at all since the engine made more engine hp (207) than the advertised 200 that Spoon says for their ITR engine.

I can see your point on some of the JDM parts and the JDM craze, but there are some good parts out there that help the performance handling etc, that are JDM honda parts (jdm itr 4-1 header, itr 23mm rear swaybar, rear upper control arms, ctr n1 crank pulley etc.) Now granted a JDM Roof console isnt helping you much But some people just want Items for their car that others dont have and the fact that the parts are OEM mmake it that much nicer.

My main point is still that an engine from Spoon with some extraa Is cheaper than buying it from an ACURA dealer in the US - So how is that Hype? I was just pointing out a true fact.

I really Dont see why we are arguing over this I just wanted to clear up a few things about the Spoon Engine and that was it.
I have No problem with You, I was just actually talking to Brian Hannon last week and we were discussing how you guys met, and that your a pretty cool guy. Hope you had a nice Holiday, TTYL

 

Thats Complete BS, Anyone who knows me knows that I try to pass on savings to anyone I can, Everyone else sells the Spoon Calipers for $1700-1800 I sell them for $1300 (a bit lower than retail in Japan) Spoon Headers everyone else $950 I do it for $825. And the list goes on and on. If their is a part by company A and Company B makes the same part for less, I reccomend Company B even if I'm losing money. BTW Doesnt JDM Honda Parts Sell Spoon and Mugen as well? They would be hurting their own business. Please Dont Assume things, Not all shops are in it for the Money.

 

I do agree about <U>some</U> JDM parts being overated. At the end of the day (do your research and talk to ppl), it's your money and you spend it how you like. Damn... if I had the deniro i'd shower my car with Spoon, Mugen, Toda goodies too.

Total bummer about Dylan's car. It's still tiiite nonetheless.

 

The certain part about Speed Factor reminds me.......

After I bought my R back in 98' I was in the process of researching various upgrades when I decided to got the JDM route Speed Factor was one of the shops that I decided to look into, knowing that they sold Spoon parts!

Reminiscing back, in early 99' I went down to this shop in Costa Mesa after it had moved intially and I finally located it cause it was like a "hole in the wall" shop!
The place was so hard to find being all the way in the back of a run down automotive complex in like an industrial area! It had one garage door with a entrance on the side and a tiny Speed Factor sign on it.

As I entered through the garage door the first thing I noticed were about 4 or 5 Hondas in various stages of repair(i.e swaps...etc., etc.) various parts, and on the side was a small area where business was done. No one was there except a guy named Min and I proceeded to inquire about some Spoon parts. Every time I asked him about a certain part he told me that the shop could get it for me but would never elaborate on anything or quote me any prices. He was very acting strange indeed! Everything was "We can get it for you". Then he finally tells me something about that they had just moved, they were having various problem, and they were having difficulties gettin' parts from Spoon! HMMMM....after reading Dylan's story now it all makes sense!

The impression that I got was that this shop was on the shady side and was not reputable. Thinkin' back I was hesitant to even tell that guy I had an R for fear of theft! This place hardly seemed like it once housed the Spoon Si-R EG when it came over in '97! Sometimes when I got to shops like this(i.e.whole in the wall) I get kinda' discouraged and hesitant! To tell you the truth after I visited Speed Factor I never went back and I never heard of them again.

Oh yeah does anyone remember that SCC article about 2 years ago about some shop in NorCal that did a complete Spoon changeover(R motor, rims, suspension, etc.) to an EK? I forget the name of the shop but the car was black and it made the front cover!





[Modified by ITRbroham, 3:11 PM 11/26/2001]

 

TypeRmsm-

All he is saying is that SPOON is way overrated. $8k is a shitload of grip. Saying that spoon engines are top notch is kinda silly, because half of their parts are OEM. Balanced R pistons become SPOON pistons.....big deal! True you might get a header or a TB or Venturir plate...cool. but why not save the money by using the OEM parts like SPOON does and take them to a reputable machine shop in your area? THAT MAKES SINCE TO ME!

 

But My point is that For $8000 He got a COMPLETE NEW Engine Engine harness, Spoon ECU, Top half of the Header, Etc, The little knick knacks spoon includes and the rebalancing.
There is NO WAY You could expect to find all of that OEM or Not For that Price New from an Acura Dealer, Last Time I checked the complete ITR Engine alone was selling for $9500 at ACURA before they discontinued it. (Now if you buy the Long block from ACURA thats how much you still end up paying, yet you get less parts)


My point is that Why is it a "Bad Deal" To get it from Spoon WHEN Its CHEAPER than it is to order the same part from a US ACURA DEALER ??

That was my whole point.

 

I'm generalizing, sorry for the silly response. In any case, I did assume and I'm glad to hear you're NOT in it just for the roberts*.

You know what they say about people who assume things, they make an "***" of themselves. So I guess I was an ***.

roberts*---&gt;robert deniro---&gt;deniro=dinero(kind of)---&gt;dinero=money. Thus Roberts=money. That was my attempt to be "hip/da bomb/dope" with my slang.


[Modified by Supersonic DC2, 4:04 PM 11/26/2001]

 

LMAO I was wondering who the Roberts were No hard feelings, I do this because its what I love.

 

you cats are a riot.
I love it, two guys Heavily involved in the scene thru 'their' shops arguing the "finer points" of Spoon crate motors and their cost/returnn ratios.... heheheheeeeeeee hahahaaa!

Yes the spoon crate motors were good deals, it is too bad they dont offer them anymore.. (right?)
Tough to get all of the parts, all NEW, then also balance and assemble the motor for the same price of the Spoon motor. And for any hardcore roadracer, this balanced setup is the way to go too, provides a long life for the motor, and less chance of breakdowns.. very important if you just shelled out $275 for a day of driving on a circuit/track for 4 hours!

 

what i still dont get is why FFsquad has (fast) cars.. never seen dyno numbers but ive seen setups... but you guys seem to never race them.... hahaha its funny
so you got any dyno numbers or track numbers ?

but yeah this JDM hype is out of proportion..yes there stuff looks nice and is/was rare.....but look here who has the fastest allmotor honda? USA, who has the fastest TURBO honda, USA?? soo hmmm why is everyone jocking JDM soo much... well that is a drag race prospective...
closest i get to road race would be speedzone grand prix cars

 

That's exactly why you don't get it. You're into drag racing, and by track numbers I assume you're reffering to 1/4 mile time right?

Get yourself on a "real" track and you'll see how much/little horsepower means in the whole scheme of things. And yeah, I've seen some of the FFsquad/TBR cars in action (racing), you'll be suprised how well they perform.

500 turbocharged 1.8 liter...WOW!, oh wait...the car has Sprint 3" drop springs on blown oem shocks and rolling on nitto 450 tires

 

you get your self on a real track one that involves whoops doubles triples burm's and then when you are on TV saying hello to the thousands of people watching you and being ranked number 2 in the world in your age group ....then you can tell me about a "reaL" track....... sounds stupid when i say it huh.... think about it

why do people insist road racing is soo superior to drag racing?? you must be new to road racing because the most knowledgable road racers ive met arent cocky at all when it comes to discussing drag racing

how about learning to respect differences in preference, and giving respect where deserved


[Modified by CRXmadeinJapan, 6:45 AM 11/27/2001]


[Modified by CRXmadeinJapan, 6:48 AM 11/27/2001]

 

EDIT: I don't even want to argue, it has gotten to a point where it's POINTLESS!


[Modified by Supersonic DC2, 10:54 PM 11/26/2001]