Has anyone converted their Older R12 Freon AC system to R200 propane? If so, please tell us about it?

Thank You

 

Why would you want to do that, instead of just retrofitting it to R134a?

Propane is a hydrocarbon and a contaminant in a cars A/C system. 94

 

Converting an R12 system to 134 makes is less efficient. When i had to do it to an old truck the thing would just not get cool enough. I ended up finding a truck 2 years newer in the junkyard and grabbed the AC system form it, which was built for 134 and it gets cool now.
Crj III, Lots of people have done this but no one on HT that I know of. I would very much like to know how well it works in your car. Please let us know if you decided to try it.

 

Then it wasn't done properly. Simply swapping out fittings isnt enough. R134 will never cool as well as R12, but it can still get in to the low 40 degree range on a retrofitted vehicle. Ive done several dozen over the years.
No one with any sense will do it. Only those who think its cool to be different.

 

Ditto the above, you did not do the retrofit properly, take my word for it, I have done hundreds of retrofits... http://www.airwolfeautoair.com/

You are correct, R134A is not as efficient as R12 but if a retrofit is done properly 40 degrees and lower is easily obtainable.

My guess is you did not flush the system when you did the retrofit leaving mineral oil in the system.

A proper retrofit requiers a flush, a new filter/dryer, a new pressure/cycling switch, [adjustable R134a retrofit switch] new O rings, system charged with the correct amount of oil, [Ester oil] and the correct amount of R134A refrigerant, [80%-90% of R12 charge]

Skip any of the above and you will have a problem. 94

 

For those of you who like to flame an idea or a question, I will let you know that my research has shown that it is very common over seas. Some have even said is is the standard way to run an A/C system overseas. Of course you cannot believe everything you read on the net, so I came here. I take it no one has done this conversion here so I will look elsewhere. Just because no one here has done it does not mean it cannot be done or is not a smart thing to do. I remember when people thought it was stupid to put an H22 in a del sol, until someone did it. New ideas is how progress happens.

 

BTW, here is one of those sources I was talking about. This is actually a new one I found today.

http://hackaday.com/2010/06/15/recha...-with-propane/

I also think I found out that although it may work, it will contaminate the system. It is a permanent change. If I or anyone does the conversion, to go back you must replace the entire system. I am not sure if I would be willing to do it knowing that. Still researching.

 

FCM,

Seems benz people have been doing this for a long time and they also confirmed my other source that said it is common in overseas cars.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126...ad-r-12-c.html

 

i don't care what non-regulated retarded overseas idiots are doing. there is no way i would ever pump an extremely flammable substance threw my ac system in the engine bay and into the passenger compartment...

if your to cheap to fix it correctly sell the car and take the bus.

 

Say what? 94

 

LMAO "hackaday" that alone should tell you something, I did mention contamination.

Just because no one here has done it is a very good reason not to do it.

With that said, it actually has been done here and still is, the "refrigerant' in DIY A/C recharge kits like RED TEK and Duracool is propane and/or Butane and you are correct, because they are hydrocarbons, once in the A/C system it can not be removed completely, ever, so the only fix is to replace the complete system.

Here is another thing to keep in mind, if you did the swap, [or recharge with DIY kits that contain hydrocarbons] and you need to replace a part, like compressor, evaporator, condensor because it is bad, there is no warranty on the part, even if it was DOA.

We had a customer not long ago who picked up a near new BMW M5, the only problem with the car was the A/C compressor bearing was gone so the compressor had to be replaced, when we IDed the system, [test equipment used to identify what is in the system] and found it to be contaminated, needless to say the customer was surprised and very pissed off that to fix his system it would cost him well over $5000. 94

 

It is stupid to introduce a hydrocarbon into the vehicles interior. Period. Slice it anyway you want its a stupid idea. Of course these guys think they are pretty slick and using propane in the AC system puts you in the same league as these Genius DIY'ers...
http://www.automechanicschools.net/b...iy-car-repairs

 

Laughed so hard a blew snot all over the monitor.94

 

FCM, tha m you for discussing and not flaming. I am here to Bette the idea. Obviously it can be done but the point you bring about replacement parts is a very big one to me. I am still not sure what I will do but I am meanin toward R2. I have to do more research first.

Thank you for your point of view

 

I realize this is an older post, but figured I would answer anyways. I have a 1988 Accord and have been running it on a hydrocarbon based refrigerant for a long time after converting to R134. This refrigerant works perfectly and vent temps were around 35-40 degrees on 100+ days while moving. I have since tried to convert to propane but am having some issues and am pretty sure the TXv valve is going out which isn't a big deal as it is easy to get to, but still has me baffled.

As for R134, this is a horribly inefficient refrigerant and works OK in systems designed for it, but still it sucks compared to my name brand hydrocarbon based refrigerant or propane.

I have a 1999 Infiniti QX4 and 1998 Nissan pathfinder. Both are R134 based systems that use a variable displacement type compressor and both run the name brand hydrocarbon based refrigerant and propane and both blow amazingly cold air with a 250psi head pressure instead of 300-350 with R134. The compressor is much quieter on the hydrocarbon based refrigerants.

I am pretty sure Honda runs the fuel lines of my 1988 Accord through the passenger compartment...(brake and fuel enter firewall and are in the channel under the door sill.)

The safety aspect of using propane as a refrigerant could be argued all day, so could that of using R134 which turns into a deadly gas when burnt.

If you want more information on using propane as a refrigerant check out the Mercedes guys, they have had great success and I have two in my SUVs.

 

Propane would be taking a step backwards as far as emissions/safety are concerned, not to mention it is illegal. PAG oil also has very poor miscibility within hydrocarbons, mineral oil is generally specified, so your compressor will likely suffer due to inadequate lubrication if it is R134a. Hydrocarbons are also responsible for drying out rubber seals, definitely not good for longevity.

CO2 is now being used in new vehicles in Europe as of 2011, and a complete phase in by the end of 2017 if all goes well. This seems to be the wave of the future for sure, unfortunately you wont be retrofitting to CO2 the same way you can with R134a.

 

Actually CO2 is only partially used in European models and it will likely be phased out. HFO-1234yf has won out. It already has EPA approval (CO2 did not get it), is already being produced by DuPont, already has equipment being produced for its use and is already being used in model year 2013 GM vehicles. The Europeans are expected to follow suit as it is more cost productive.







*Haha, sorry man not trying to bust your *****. Seriously. But the facts are what they are.....