I'm driving a 94 LS right now, and am planning on turbocharging next summer. Well, I've been sitting around not doing **** to my car because all I'm doing is saving right now for the turbo. I'm now thinking of adding the Vtec head to it. Do you think this is a good idea or no? I don't want to take the chance of blowing the motor. I know that it would be a whole **** load of power though. Any experience with this setup WITH a turbo on it?

 

The biggest thing with the LS/Vtec set-up is finding people who have done it before. I don't know how it is in WI, but here in NC nobody has done it. I've heard of a few problems with inexperienced people doing the conversion because so much has to be done.

As far as doing it with a turbo, I've heard of at least a couple of people doing it but due to the cost, most don't. Doing a ls/vtec can cost as much as a turbo so you're looking at a bit of money. If you do decide to do them both, strengthen your bottom end while the head is off and you're getting work done so you can accomidate higher boost (doing the same with the valvetrain wouldn't be a bad idea either).

Anyway, my $.02

 

I planned on building the bottom end anyways for when I put on the turbo. I'm just curious what kind of power I'll be putting to the wheels with this setup.

What head usually goes on the LS block? B16A or B18C?

 

Oh yeah, here in Wisconsin, the best place I'd trust is King Motorsports, but, they cost way too much money.

There's a place called Hyperformance, but, they're one of the worst places to go to have work done on your car. The owner(Roy) has no idea what he's talking about. He'll tell you to add a 100 shot of NOS to your stock motor, just so he can make a quick buck.

I guess I could go to Chicago. Its only an hour or so south of me. There's a place down there called Garage Kwai, and its a real quality type of shop.

 

i believe the cyl pressure goes up when u swap the vtec head ont eh ls block, so with a turbo i wouldnt do that, plus when teh vtec will kick in and teh turbo will spoll up it might be undrivable, b18b with 10 psi 250hp 200tq at wheels

 

Your describing my setup and I'm doing it all myself. It's not difficult, but very expensive. Yes I added the girdle, no the cr is not a problem (9.5:1). Source all of your parts, you will need a bunch. There are two website that pretty much cover all you'll need. They forgot to add timing belt cover though. Your ls one won't fit. My FI ls/vtec parts list.

clutchnet pp and copper disc
quaife
radius rods

eagle rods, pistons, rings
modified gsr block girdle
no oil squirters. Don't try it-you don't have much space to screw up and if you do you have a hole in your oil passages.
b16 head, intake, tb
oxide coated valve (endyn)
type r valves (but don't rev high-they were just cheap)
oil cooler

hondata ecu
440 injectors

This set up will cost thousands. I've spent 9k. All kinds of **** pops up. However you will be able to drive hard and reliably with tuning.

Good luck

 

As far as the head is concerned, you can use the head from a b16b, b18c1, or b18c5 to do the conversion. The B16b is the most commonly used due to pricing and the combustion chamber's shape being a bit better.

CR should not be an issue especially if the engine is being built. CR will change only slightly most of the time by doing a diff. head. Pistons result in the biggest CR change.

For horsepower, most of the LS/VTECs I've seen that have been dynoed register somewhere between 160-180. I've seen a few as low as 150 and as high as the mid-190s. Adding a turbo to it would really depend on the turbo. Considering a GSR w/ DragIII kit puts out somewhere in the neighborhood of 260 (I think...), you should be a bit higher. Building the engine in the process and you can possibly expect a 20% higher number once all fuel/ignition/tuning is done.

The above post illustrates how easy it is to blow a wad of cash on a LS/VTEC setup. I've seen places advertising the swap for around $1600, head included. That's pure B.S. I've seen very few successful setups that cost less than 3 or 4k. Adding the turbo and related accessories, you'd very possibly end up around the same level as above. However, if you get it done right (and do it all at once), you'll save money in the long run by not having the work repaired because of a shitty job and you'll have a completely different car. Good luck!

 

yeah, click "LSVTEC" in my sig for a how-to. -C

 

Dave421 is right. My goal was 400+ whp, so that's where the high cost comes from, however this is how costs climb:
You buy your head-so now you gotta make sure it's flat. If not gotta deck it=$
Are you gonna trust your baby to those valve springs? =$
Since you're going FI and the head is off might as well get high heat valves =$$
New valves? Need new seals and go on and get Ti retainers=$
If you plan on tuning - and you should - you'll need cam gears= $

On to the block:
Since you're going FI, unless you're a gambler you'll need the girdle and bolts = $
Since the bottom is open get new bearings = $
Now depending on your power goals you may want forged rods and pistons and possibly new sleeves= $$$$

Transmission
Turbo, you'll need a new disc and pp = $
Unless you like one wheel traction you'll want an LSD=$

suspension
radius rods = no wheel hop = $$

Now there's all kinds of unexpected crap that will pop up as your doing this. For instance as you have your block out you may notice your engine/tranny mounts broken or cracked. Those things are not cheap! You may notice your struts are shot and the rubber bumpstops are falling apart.

Man I could go on forever, but you get the idea. Sorry for the long post and g'luck!
In case anyone is curious, I won't be able to reach my target hp. Started grad school and ran out of funds for sleeves.
Jeff




[Modified by b18bpwr, 6:33 AM 8/24/2001]

 

Well, I've already got my GSR tranny with KAAZ 1.5 LSD. So, that's already out of the way. Also, my suspension is complete.

Basically, everything on my car is ready, except for the motor.

 

Good to hear. Now you need to decide what are your power goals. Your ls head and a properly sized turbo/intercooler/downpipe/exhaust may get you there. Sure the vtec head will get you more power per psi, but it's no good if that power exceeds the capacity of the block. Try to find a reputable tuner how has a lot of experience and he/she should be able to give some good feedback.

 

Turbo charged LS engine as supplied by Honda Tuner: 233.2 whp

Same engine with B16 head swap, GS-R pistons and 10psi : 291.4 whp

 

here the address to a good shop I know in Milwaukee http://www.spmotorsports.net. That the only shop I know that did many LS/VTEC.

 

this shop in kali does it for 1200 bucks...

so its not a good idea to go down there and get it done? they said they do ls/vtecs all the time... i was thinking about sending my motor 2 them for them 2 do it, since its so cheap, but im far away, in Indiana.... what u guys think?


[Modified by kikkoboyie, 12:12 AM 8/29/2001]

 

Dude, I want to do the LS/Vtec conversion and at least 3 places have quoted my under $2000 with the head and $3000 with a full race PnP, 5angle valve, new springs and retainers, etc... (B16)
Hell, even Dynamic Turbo told me around $1600 with the head !

I don't even know why some places give such 'cheep' prices and some people say they spend more than a turbo kit + install for a head swap ! Why is that ?

Just a basic swap....head,dist,intake man., T/B, ECU, wiring, oil tap, GSR oil pump...nuts, bolts, gaskets... why should a swap come out to some of the ridiculous figures that some of us see.... do you have to invest SOOOOO much to get a reliable swap, or are all of those high priced quotes just for mods after the swap ?

 

whats up buddy didnt know u posted something for ls/vtec..I'm not badmouthing spmotorsports but i've heard many horror stories from them.
i say save ur money build that bottom end and boost. adding ls/vtec and turbo mucho dinero hehhe you know what that means time to sell the hog

 

decisions, decisions, decisions.......

its so hard 2 decideeeeee

 

I've got to sell that damn Harley of mine. Its costing me too much to keep.

I wish I never bought it.

SP motorsports sucks! I'll badmouth them all I want. They're horrible.

 

Yes we start Ls/vtec conversion at $1200. This will include install, earls lines, ITR oil pump, chipped vtec ecu, vtec head, and installation. If you want valve springs, higher compression pistons, vtec distributor, cams, titanium retainers, of course it will cost more. For the basic conversion which is listed above, its $1200. But for a full race motor, you could easily spend 3K-5K and up. Depends how extreme you want to go.

I have the B20 vtec in my integra, and i drive it every single day. No problems what so ever. Its all about getting it done right. We have done many conversions and have not ever had a problem with them. We did our first one about 2 years ago, and its still running strong. With over 30K miles since he had it done. Price also varies with location. A few shops out here in socal know how to do it right. So with more competition, you have to lower prices. Out in the east, theres not as much selection of reputable shops, so you have to pay more.

The link is in my sig for the shop. Hope that gives you some insight on what needs to be done.

And yes turbo would be much more expensive than the conversion.

 

You get what you pay for buddy...pay a lil more now...save urself alotta headaches later on cuz when you take your motor to a second rate shop and yo shiet starts leaking..or head studs snap or some other catastrophic incident ur gonna wish u'd pay that extra...200 bucks? maybe even less ?. stick with your quote and start thinking as wise as the " people you speak to"

just my opinion...

 

I'm on my way to LS/VTEC.. just got the B18C1 head and about to get some cams and pistons... one step @ a time...

 

I agree with you Slain spmotorsports is shitty my buddy motor been rebuilt from the bottom up using TODA products running high 14 now that some ****. 420tegls sorrie for telling you about spmotorsports. I just slap on a gsr head water pump oil pump using a b16 tranny on my old civic I ran 14.2 with slicks everything else was stock. 420tegls you should just build up your motor and turbo it that just my 2cents


[Modified by B16Vtec, 8:55 AM 9/11/2001]

 

opps forgot something f*#k hyper don't listen to ROY

 

to get the best in reliability and fairly good prices use the most honda parts you can. My motor is being built as we speak and the only non honda parts will be the Intake Manifold, ignition, cam gears, intake, exaust and then little things. ARP bolts help hold everything together but that just helps...doesnt hurt. HAHA my car will go 12.xx with all honda ****....

 

Some things about the ls/vtec conversion you may nor may not know. You'll need the upper two pieces of the gsr timing belt cover. You'll also need a dremmel to trim the upper inner piece to fit correctly OR you could run without a timing belt (risky).
Make sure you have the vtec head upper power steering pump bracket with your head. Your LS one won't fit the gsr head.
You'll also need bspt to npt adapters (1/8" female BST to 1/8" male NPT and 1/8" female NPT to 1/8" male BSPT) if you're running ss oil lines from the block to the head. Summit sells them for 10 buck a piece, but parker sells them for less. I'll have a quote tomorrow.
Also if you decided to buy from summit, try to find someone familiar with pipe threads. Twice I called and they didn't know what I was talking about. Third call when I wanted to refund my purchase I finally found someone who had a clue, but by this time I had already spoken with parker.

Hope this helps.
-j


[Modified by b18bpwr, 9:09 PM 9/11/2001]