as the subject says, i hydrolocked my b16a3 a few days ago. i'm using an Iceman CAI and hit a moderately deep puddle. now i have water on top of two pistons and two bent rods.

so today, i ordered a brand new R shortblock from Gettel Acura in Sarasota which will be here next week. then i'm putting the b16a head on the R shortblock and going with this setup.

R timing belt 60.00
R headgasket 60.00
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket 55.00
p30 head shaved 20 thousandths 100.00
GSR FPR 25.00
GSR P72 (Trading P30 for it)
Type R clutch (Already on My car)
B16a Resurfaced Flywheel (included in cost of head)

Work: 900

Total Cost: 3200.

I should make 180-185hp, 140 tq with STOCK b16a cams and stock timing. i will later change to gsr cams and cam gears...once i am able to work a few months.

kid in similar setup with OPEN differential and slicks went 13.2@106.

i have a jdm R transmission so i figure 13.2's should be attainable with street tires.

*******What does everyone think?********

and i'll have pictures up when the block arrives...

 

how uch is a itr block from the dealer?

 

a little over 2000 is my price on the ITR block.

 

you wont see those numbers to the wheels.

 

The GSR P72 may throw a code, whining about the missing 2-stage manifold.. Don't know how much of a problem it would be -- hopefully it's not a 'limp home' kind of event.

They're both obd2, right?

Mark

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you wont see those numbers to the wheels</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, i will. same setup was just built by a friend of mine and it made 185-140.

i'll post dyno charts when its finished...which should take about 2 weeks before i dyno the car and have it kinda tuned.

and the p72 won't throw a code either...and they are both obd1.

 

I thought that honda wasnt offering the assembled short blocks anymore??

 

just ordered one today.

there were two in a warehouse in columbus ohio, one of which is mine.

they are not as easy to get as they once were...but they are still available.

how do you think acura can keep their warranty on type R's without having new shortblocks to replace a motor that suffers damage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you wont see those numbers to the wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree. ITR's with very good I/H/E setups put out similar numbers.

 

head will also be milled 20 thousandths.

plus i have a comptech header and apexi world sport exhaust with testpipe...

but i will post my dyno results...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">head will also be milled 20 thousandths.

plus i have a comptech header and apexi world sport exhaust with testpipe...

but i will post my dyno results...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but the ITR I'm referring to ran an ITR head and ecu (obviously) and an Icebox, JDM 4-1 w/ a 2.5" Carsound and a 2.5" straight-through exhaust.

Either way, I anticipate seeing the plots and good luck with the build.

 

Chet,

I did your bill a few minutes ago and noticed you post.

12251-P30-014 , head gasket $55.15

14400-P72-014, t-belt $47.91

10002-P73-A03, B18c5 block, $2050.00 w/ Free Fender Cover and coffee cup

Only of total 4 left in the country (2) in Troy, Ohio warehouse, the other 2 in Cali.

 

all i can say is bert, thanks for the excellent deal.

i'm extremely grateful you could come up with a block in such short notice...given my situation.

 

Congrats on the R block purchase by the way. I've had mine a while and I love it.

You are looking at 10.93:1. I am at 10.85 with the GSR head and R block no mill using the OBD2 GSR computer, stock HG, GSR manifold, throttle body and stock exhaust. A .0020" mill is only really used to clean up the head and make sure its square. It will bump you .3 of a point, which may or may not give you any power. On GSR cams the most I have seen on the dyno corrected was 158/121 118@5252 on all stock stuff and 18timing using the R-block. I have since then tricked my cam timing a bit and I know the car is running faster than before I estimate 160-163/123-125 after being totally broken in also. I dont doubt that with a new cat, a header and a decent catback I can see high 170s and 130s CORRECTED for tq without tuning the car's ECU. I just think you are over-estimating your powergains as most of us do when we start buying up parts. No doubt in an EG with the Si tranny you will enjoy low 14s or even high 13s without doing much. The GSR computer will hold you back. Your engine combination initializing VTEC at 4400 will make a huge hole in your powercurve. Also, the timing curve on the GSR is less agressive and you only get 8100rpm. Do you plan on using the ITR intake plenum and throttle body&gt;?

With all respect, you didnt mention IHE tuning or anything else. Dont expect 180s CORRECTED to the wheels without tuning because you WONT get it. I dont doubt with the right tuning on B16 cams you will see the high 160-170s range w/ SAE corrected numbers. I have an R block in my GSR also and I understand how robust they are. If you do get it tuned, post a dyno with corrected horsepower. I am about to aquire a comptech header also. Are you referring to the street or the race header? The race header will make much more power and put you in the range you are looking for power wise for sure. I have heard nothing but good things about how the street header performs even with stronger engine combinations; I am looking to get one from a friend.

Remember stock ITRs without any parts or tuning make 158/116 - 165/121 at the wheels SAE corrected. Add a header, cat, 2.5" exhaust, cam tuning and hondata, IM gasket and intake you can see 180s at the wheels no problem. You are only boasting .3cr more than an ITR with less cam and a lesser computer. I would like to see you make good numbers... I want to see a dyno because the claims made here are not realistic. 140tq with 185hp at the wheels begs the question on those cams with a 87.2 crank.

Personally, I think you will be making those numbers to the crank with

B16a head/stock valves, springs and cams, .0020" mill +.3cr
stock B18 HG
B16a intake manifold and TB
P72ECU
C5 shortblock (10.6:1 with B16a head)
B18 FPR, fuel pump
155/115 at the wheels peak SAE corrected 18 timing. 182/140 at the flywheel
comptech header/cat/apexi WS/intake +12/8 at the wheels corrected
untuned my prediction is going to be

170/123 at the wheels SAE corrected 18timing &gt; 200/150 at the flywheel
with cam timing changes to add more overlap at TDC and tuning with a
VFAC, I can see you gaining another 3-5 peak with a global increase...
say like a +2/10, -1/10 at 18 timing...

 

something is wrong if your hp is only in the 160's. i made 152whp with a bone stock b16a3.

http://www.hondaswap.com/~pills/chet_ecu.html

neal sutton (you have probably heard of him...he's in north tampa and just sold his 11 second all motor daily driven crx) has built three of these motors recently. at secret services here in st petersburg they have all made over 185whp. this is with a vafc and p72 with stock timing and cam gears. both setups used gsr cams and an otherwise stock b16a head.

neal is putting this motor together with me...as i've only taken a few motors apart and don't want to risk making any mistakes. soon we'll see, as i know this same kid went 13.2@106 in his civic hb with basically the same as mine...again the mph is a sign of hp.

 

what is a Hydrolocked?

someone define it for me..?

 

nothing is wrong with my setup.

I am only saying how you want 185/140 and you mention nothing about tuning.
You dont say anything about what kind of dyno numbers, SAE standard or corrected, you make no mention about hondata tuning. Only after poked you add in that you have a header, intake and 2.5" exhaust and that you dont plan on using a cat. This is fairly important information when saying you plan on extracting very strong numbers from a relatively stock or less than stock ITR setup. In this case you will be making power from your TUNING which is a consession you arent willing to make. "stock timing and cam gears, stock setup"

for refrence my setup is meant for driving not for racing.
I dont have a lick of extra tuning in my setup currently.
hence, the midrange bias in my curve. I get groceries.

1999 GSR 14.85 @ 93.6 on stock tranny and old tires back in 11/02

P72 head, no mill, no P/P. ITR valvesprings, LMAs, GSR cams
C5 block bought new, stock B18 HG, arp head studs
GSR tranny, shaved ITR flywheel, used B16clutch (works fine)
GSR intake manifold with radiused internal secondary ports,
Tapered throttle body 60mm
Hondata IM gasket
stock GSR fuel system
stock GSR fuel pressure
OBD2 GSR computer
fluidyne radiator, GSR thermostat
Stock GSR exhaust, cat, B pipe and 98 ITR muffler
Stock GSR intake with cold air ducting, stock air filter
stock cam gears and 18 timing made
158/121 with 118/118 at 5252rpm SAE Corrected.
When we dynoed I noticed the AFR was between 14.5-13.3 between
3 and 8K.

with all due respect Chet. SAE horsepower on the dyno is not corrected
numbers. I looked at your link. 150/103 with 95/95 at 5252rpm in your
B16a3 non-corrected is not my curve. I am not flaming you. You are
not accurately stating how you expect to make your gains. I make better
than 20 more WHP (even if you were using corrected numbers) in my
midrange than that B16, and 10 more up top with all stock GSR crap.

When you make 185/140 with B16 cams on a 10.9:1 motor with bolt ons and tuning I want to see corrected numbers. With my friend's ITR on the same dyno I spun on with this setup:

'01 ITR
AEM Cold Air/wrapped
Laetner and Bush 64mm TB
Skunk2 Stage 1 cams
carsound cat
endyn breather kit
cam gears, fpr and vafc
stock exhaust, ECU, compression

182/128 cSAE corrected numbers with 116/116 at 5252rpm
18 timing -2,-2 and 55psi at WOT you can ask Eleanor about
his car if you want. Its fast as crap and has a 4.785 in it as
well. He doesnt drag race so he cant give you a time.

All I am saying here is that you arent giving 100% of the deal here bragging
about a setup saying that it "isnt tuned" and is some kinda freak motor making very very strong numbers. If you are going to make these numbers on B16 cams, you are definately going to have to tune every aspect of the engine from fuel to ECU to cams to intake, header and exhaust... extracting EVERYTHING out of what you can make from that engine leaving nothing in the metal so to speak.

Thats a nice luxury to have, considering if I had the extra 3G to properly tune what I had I would be there as well

 

hydrolocked basically means water inside the motor. water doesn't compress, which means something else within the motor has to. in most cases the rods are what bend, however valves can also be damaged under certain circumstances.

i'll take pictures when i finally get the motor out of the car.

 

i understand what you're saying, and i'm going to tune the motor with a vafc and gsr ecu.

as far as corrected horsepower, i just know from my experience what the dynojet at secret services measures. everyone that i've mentioned has used this dyno (secret services, st pete florida) and has made between 180-190hp, 135-140tq.

my car with 150whp went 14.5@95

and bryan's car (188,140) went 13.2@106. again this is with open differential, slicks.

i really don't know much about sae corrected hp etc, i just know what kind of horsepower numbers yield low 13's, and this setup will put me in that range. of course i'm going to get the air/fuel correct and raise vtec accordingly...

and when i say stock motor, i mean stock internals...i guess i should clarify although i know thats technically not true.

as is always the case though...dyno results and 1/4 mile times will yield the most conclusive results about the type of power i'm making.

 

id be curious how my car would stack up against the numbers I have
with my times, using the dragstrip as a calculator... hmm

http://www.boostcontroller.com/hpcalculator.html

2670 (car weight approx) + 20 (2 gallons of gas) + 160 (me) = 2800lbs

Total Car Weight (with driver): 2800
E/T (quarter mile elapsed time): 14.85
Trap Speed (MPH at end of quarter mile): 93.6


Output:

Trap Speed Method: approx. 182 HP
ET Method: approx. 172 HP

 

i've never been a big numbers guy...however i know what kind of power it takes to run low 13's. thats all i really care about...and whether or not i make 200whp means absolutely nothing to me.

i see a lot of turbo cars with 300+hp running shitty times (yes i know turbo hp is different) but i think speed in the 1/4 mile is a good indicator of horsepower.

14.5@95 miles an hour is good for about 145whp considering the car i have weighs around 2200lbs. i also have limited slip...and had like 5.1:1 final drive (vx wheels, avs intermediates)

your mph and 1/4 mile time isn't that impressive...considering the mods you have. i know integra's are heavy but i've personally seen a mostly stock run 14.0's on nitto drag radials. i've also seen a type R with a milled head (20thousandths) run 13.7's.

kenji's R also run's 13.6's.

 

Total Car Weight (with driver): 2350
E/T (quarter mile elapsed time): 14.5
Trap Speed (MPH at end of quarter mile): 95

Trap Speed Method: approx. 157 HP
ET Method: approx. 152 HP

(surprisingly...this is about right)

as the ET method is basically right on the money...which is what i've always known to be true.

again, i measure performance by actual times. i've dynoed at two different places and made more power at one compared to the other under very similar circumstances.

the 1/4 mile and mph are basically the same, and considering i'm at sea level here in florida and my run came when it was 80 degrees, etc...it gives everyone a true measure of performance and how fast (or slow) my car is.

 

name me a stock DC2GSR than runs 14.0 on street tires...

or 14.85 for that matter.

my run: 2.27 60', 9.5" 1/8 mi, 14.85 at 93.6mph. I am not a drag
racer. that was my first night ever at the track and my 3rd run ever.
I am sure I can get a better time out of the car with my azenis.
Just remember to compare apples to apples. The GSR gearset
accelerates well up until midway into 3rd gear, then it falls off peak.
My car is not an R.

quote: "for refrence my setup is meant for driving not for racing.
I dont have a lick of extra tuning in my setup currently.
hence, the midrange bias in my curve. I get groceries."

for refrence... my only real mod on the car is the R block...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">name me a stock DC2GSR than runs 14.0 </TD></TR></TABLE>

No such thing. Fastest I have EVER seen anyone even claim is a 14.6. I dont remember where I saw it, but it was on some site so it was probably made up. I had a friend who ran a 14.89 in his, bone stock. He removed PS and lowered the air pressure in his tires. Thats it. It would be impossible for a dc2gsr to hit a 14.0.

 

i was talking about a Type R. i've never seen a stock gsr run better than high 14's.