After 30+ years of driving/wrenching, all of a sudden different cars are developing "oil-gelling" problems that are ruining engines. Is it just me, or do some techs think the newer 5K-7.5K oil change intervals are BS?

I see the auto makers telling people it's alright to be "lazy" about maintenance, where the golden rule of thumb used to be 3K/6 mo. oil changes. Modern oils ARE better, but 200% better for mileage/time in the crankcase?

I suspect the "newer" guidelines are eating engines. Any thoughts? Wrenchy

 

Personally I'd have a hard time and haven't and may never, letting used oil go over 3k mileage mark and or 6 months. I haven't seen enough evidence or time to believe the 5-7k mileage oil interval...

but then again i have yet to use synthetic oil in any of my cars...

 

Yea, I think the 7k OCI is bull ****. I could see doing that with synthetic maybe, but not with a regular mineral oil no way. Obviously if you change oil you see the difference in oil that's brand new and oil that's got 3k on it. Also, oil gets diluted by fuel and loses it's protective properties, so why extend your OCI's with oil that's broken down?

 

car companies know people are lazy and only care about MPG in the USA. Sure engines are made better then before

I once saw a engine (Push rod V8) that haven't had there oil change in 1 year and the damage was sticky valves and all this other crap

 

I always use the 3K mile/3 month rule. I've been doing that since I bought my car with 89K miles on it, and it now has 260K miles on it.

I think most owners' manuals will say 5K or 7K oil change intervals for normal driving, but 3K intervals for "harsh" driving conditions. Harsh conditions have several definitions in the manuals, one being lots of stop-and-go driving or short trips.

Truthfully, I think the large majority of driving Americans will fall into that "harsh" category because almost everyone drives in stop-and-go traffic or makes lots of short trips every day.

So unless you're using something like Mobil1 synthetic, I would definitely follow the 3 month/3K mile interval.

And it looks like for the first time in probably 4+ years, I'll be changing my oil this month after it being in my engine for 3 months BEFORE hitting the 3K mile mark. At one point a few years ago I was doing 3K miles in just ONE month.

 

All I know is my oil changes have been done since new between every 4-6k miles, and my car now has 218k on it with no problems. I do agree with PatrickGSR that a majority of Americans drive under the "harsh environment" rule, but alot of people(and I've heard it from their own mouths at the shop where I work) are "too busy" to have their oil changed per a severe duty schedule. I actually had a car that the customer went 13k miles on one oil change, we changed his oil, and he returned for another after putting 18k on THAT oil change, because he was "too busy". Yeah, you're gonna be real busy buying a new engine, dumbass.

 

If you look there is a list of cars/engines that have been basically "black listed" because they get an abnormal sludge build-up even when the oil is changed at the specified intervals. Toyota and Audi are on this list last time I checked, but no Hondas.

A friend of mine works at a shop and a lady came in with an Xterra that was making "tapping" noises. He asked her "when was your last oil change" she replied "I don't know, but it was running fine so I didn't think it needed one" . So he changed the oil and in the next week or two the Xterra showed up on a flatbed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A friend of mine works at a shop and a lady came in with an Xterra that was making "tapping" noises. He asked her "when was your last oil change" she replied "I don't know, but it was running fine so I didn't think it needed one" . So he changed the oil and in the next week or two the Xterra showed up on a flatbed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Heard that one before, too. And then they ask you "why doesn't my engine turn over when I try to start it?". Makes you wanna clothesline someone.

 

I've wrenched on toyotas for the last 7 yrs. I have seen and repaired soo many sludge engines it makes me sick. How hard is it to get your oil changed every 3k(my preference), or at least by 5k. The worst part about it is toyota warrantys most of these sludge motors, regardless of mileage/age if they are 5SFE or 1MZFE/3MZFE. That covers 4 and 6 cylinder camry,solara,highlander,avalon from around 1997-2001. From what I understand Toyota lost a class action lawsuite on the sludging. They suposidly lost because of insufficient pcv systems. UHHHHHHH NO. If I am ever arrested for murder I want the lawyer that pulled that one off. Not a single sludge motor that I worked on had any solid oil change history at the dealer, and alot of them were well beyond 5k on the stickers. I also ran into a decent ammount of faulty rod bolts on 5SFE (4cyl camry/solara). But toyota wouldn't admit to that, and these happen on perfectly maintained motors, not neclected sludge motors. Ok, I'm done venting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blkb18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've wrenched on toyotas for the last 7 yrs. I have seen and repaired soo many sludge engines it makes me sick. How hard is it to get your oil changed every 3k(my preference), or at least by 5k. The worst part about it is toyota warrantys most of these sludge motors...</TD></TR></TABLE>

"Sludge motors" thats funny. I'm gonna use that.

My brother has a 01 or 02 Corrola w/ 1.8L VVT, he changes it between 3-6k and drives like old lady. I changed his oil for him a few months ago and a <U>HALF A QUART</U> came out after letting it drip for half an hour. The **** looked like black syrup. Worst part is the oil light didn't come on. ASKING TOYOTA AS IF THEY'LL ANSWER: HOW LOW DOES THE OIL HAVE TO BE IN YOUR SLUDGE MOTORS TO SET OFF THE DAMN OIL LIGHT?

 

It makes you wonder if maybe Toyota or Audi are running their engines on the "too hot" side of things. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


My brother has a 01 or 02 Corrola w/ 1.8L VVT, he changes it between 3-6k and drives like old lady. I changed his oil for him a few months ago and a <U>HALF A QUART</U> came out after letting it drip for half an hour. The **** looked like black syrup. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I mean, its either being consumed by the engine somehow or its being burned off from excess engine heat/friction. Either way the oil is deteriorating faster than it should. Sounds like Toyota is slipping away from what they used to be.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by King V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It makes you wonder if maybe Toyota or Audi are running their engines on the "too hot" side of things.

I mean, its either being consumed by the engine somehow or its being burned off from excess engine heat/friction. Either way the oil is deteriorating faster than it should. Sounds like Toyota is slipping away from what they used to be.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously man, this engine I speak of has 97### miles. Take off the valve cover and everything is scorched BLACK. IMO Toyota used to be the gold standard as far as production engine design is concerned, but I feel they have given that up for extreme mass production.

New Toyota's

ALL Audi's (glorified VW's)

 

The 1ZZFE motors burn oil bad once the oil changes are niglected. The oil retension rings that normally move freely become stuck in the ring land and drink oil like 1qt per 1k miles or worse. My wifes corolla has 80K miles and doesnt burn any. As far as the oil light goes, they dont call it a dummy light for nothing . Once that comes on your pretty well screwed. I have noticed deterioration of quality all around the toyota lines over the last 5 years or so. But as far as engines go, 95% of major problems are due to lack of maintenance, plain and simple.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blkb18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The 1ZZFE motors burn oil bad once the oil changes are niglected. The oil retension rings that normally move freely become stuck in the ring land and drink oil like 1qt per 1k miles or worse.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is this the motor I was talking about? 1.8L DOHC VVT 01-02? I can never remember the
name of the Toyota engines 1G4AFEAE861ZZFE....................

 

Yes, its been pretty much the same motor since 97/98 ish. They were first put in the previous generation corollas. Even though your brother may keep the oil changed it doesent mean the privious owner did. Pull the motor and bring it to me.

 

1ZZ-FE is the 140hp engine used in the late-model Celica GT's and the only motor that came in the MR-2 Spyder.

 

Yup. I never could figure out why they didn't put the GTS motor(2ZZ-FE) in the MR2. That would be a fun ride with the RWD.

 

its all to keep shop labor up by the time the warenty is up its all $$$$ labor. the dealer isent stupid. if you tell someone that dosent know any beter thay can wait 7k thay will go 10k. then engines are being replaced everywere.

 

As a tech up in Canada ,I am a firm believer that insufficient oil changes causes extensive engine damage.Think about starting your car when the temp. is -25 C.If your oil isn't in good shape it can take a good 30-40 seconds before oil starts flowing,and I regularly see vehicles with 15000 km's or more since last oil change.And extreme temp. can also cause the condensation inside the engine to make you wonder if the head gasket is blown.Why can't people understand how important fluids are?Wouldn't you want to protect and maintain something you pay 20-40 000 dollars for.I use synthetic and change it every 5000km's & it's always dirty but my 86 toyota p/u now has 314 000km's and doesn't burn a drop of oil.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97blkonblk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I use synthetic and change it every 5000km's & it's always dirty but my 86 toyota p/u now has 314 000km's and doesn't burn a drop of oil. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sure you mean that it doesn't consume abnormal amounts of oil.

To reply to the rest of your post, as a general rule IMO most modern people are a bit lazy. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mcvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...He asked her "when was your last oil change" she replied "I don't know, but it was running fine so I didn't think it needed one"</TD></TR></TABLE>
On top of that, not everyone has the same knowledge as, say, someone like you who is a (car?) tech and sees first hand what insufficient maintenance can do to an automobile. I think a lot of people just don't even think about maintenance...'til something starts making noise or breaks altogether.

 

hey blkb18
how do you like toyota since they started using gm electronics?

 

Well then, here's a related question. If an engine has 219,000 miles on the clock, is it "OK" to have the black burnt substance in a very very small amount in an engine? My B16 has aforementioned "issue", and this thread kinda got me a little paranoid. Said substance comes off with a dose of 3M brake cleaner, or a good rub with a finger. Is this just an accumulation from miles traveled/age? Or should I start stashing my pennies for a rebuild?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by King V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well then, here's a related question. If an engine has 219,000 miles on the clock, is it "OK" to have the black burnt substance in a very very small amount in an engine? My B16 has aforementioned "issue", and this thread kinda got me a little paranoid. Said substance comes off with a dose of 3M brake cleaner, or a good rub with a finger. Is this just an accumulation from miles traveled/age? Or should I start stashing my pennies for a rebuild?</TD></TR></TABLE>

When I received my JDM B16A back in '00 I was scared when I took the top off. Everything under the valve cover was scorched dark brown/black, definitely from lack of oil changes. I thought it might not even run, or if it did it would burn oil badly. I really thought I had been riped off. 7+/- years later the damn thing runs excellent, doesn't consume abnormal amounts of oil, gets awesome mpg and I did not rebuild it. I do oil changes every 3000+/- miles or every two months, and the oil in the engine stays clean for weeks (I use Castrol GTX High-Mileage, **** is the same color as brake fluid).

My good friend has a EG DX, D15B7 non-VTEC I believe, with 284### miles on it. Take the valve cover off and it looks like a brand new head.

This is what I THINK is going on:

Most people know that the more you drive around VTECin' your motor, the more it will burn oil. That burnt **** I'm sure eventually builds up in the motor more and more over time. The D15 I mentioned ^^^ doesn't have VTEC, doesn't rev to over 8 thousand rpm and was probably babied its entire life.

So in other words, I think it is "normal" to have some black/dark build-up, after 219,000 miles, if you are a "spirited" drive who uses the rpm range that Honda gave you.

IMO should you be paranoid that your motor will self destruct soon? No

IMO should you wind the **** out of it all the time? No

IMO should you plan to rebuild it before something catastrophic happens? Yes

This is what I am going to do^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

CHEERS!

 

Had a 1990 model Cressida (3 litre straight six twin cam) that had horrendous internal gunk build up (I mean really bad). Don't really know the oil change history on that motor (probably poor, but better in my ownership), but it used hardly any oil, made no odd noises and performed exceptionally well (bit of a rocket really for an overweight semi-luxury automatic).

The only issue that arose from the sludging was the breather tubes became totally blocked up causing excessive crankcase pressure with a number of resulting minor oil leaks, and erratic poor performance. I had to burn the grunge out of the metal breather tubes with a blowtorch and replace the rubber ones. Fixed all the problems, including the leaks!

On the other hand my CB7 Accord is clean as a whistle inside, I wonder if Honda's use of an oil cooler / heater (oil to water heat exchanger) at the filter attachment helps reduce sludging?

 

I havent really noticed any more problems than before. There are only a small handfull of Delco parts used by toyota, half of those parts are on the matrix/corolla.