Helo. Here is a new problem. My car used to start after about 1 second of cranking, maybe less, no matter what temp. On first star in the morning all I had to do is prime the fuel pump for a second then crank. And when warm just turn the key. Always started in less then a second of cranking. Sounds like 1 or 2 compression strokes.

Then I sent my injectors to a lab to be cleaned and tested. Came back tested good. I put them back in. The I also changed the starter motor brushes.

Now In the morning it starts on first compression stroke always, but when it is warm it takes about 5 seconds of cranking. The starter motor sounds better than before, it sound even faster. When cranking it does not sound like it is struggling to ignite. It does this even when I prime the fuel pump a couple times.

In the morning it always starts great, even if I dont prime the fuel pump.

To me it sound like it is getting too much gas, since cold engine needs mor gas it will start fast but hot engine need less gas, and thats why it needs more cranks. Thats just what I think.

What can I do to test? What do you think it is? Like I said the started sounds way better then before so I dont think that would be the problem. As before it sounded like my car was low on battery and it still started the car quickly.

 

How long does it crank over (until it starts) when it's warm?

Start makes same sounds when cold and warm?

 

It takes about 5 seconds to start when warm. The starter makes the same sound when cold and warm.

One more thing. If I am using the car warm and turn it off and right back on, it starts quick. Its when I leave it for more than a couple minutes.

 

Weird stuff. I want to concentrate on your most recent changes (starter) but it ain't sounding any different. (injectors) were not modified in any way? (stupid and cheap mods that make them spray like a water hose)

How about Silly stuff like cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires?

 

No mods to anything, The injectors were original and tested.

 

Common symptom, if you have a problem with the ECT sensor, if sensor is telling the ECU/ECM the engine is cold, the A/F ratio will be rich.

Another symptom will be poor fuel milage, as you will always be running rich.

Pull and inspect the spark plugs for color, dry "sooty" deposits indicate a rich A/F ratio. 94

 

Thank you for your reply. I checked the ect sensor earlier today, and it checked out ok. Starting at around 2.5v when cold and while heating up going down slowly to .45 volts. So it is still working.

I do have a little bit of low mpg so I am guessing it is running a little rich, which would cause hard starts when warm. But I have had the bad mpg since over a year, and this problem started a couple months ago.

No black smoke, and the spark plugs have a little bit of black on them but look ok.

 

Is there any way I could manually control the amount of fuel being injected? I would like to check if it is because of too much or too little fuel.

I hate this because it used to start right away, now it sound like an old car that has to crank forever to start. And only when it has been warmed and then left for more than 30 minutes.

 

Check your fuel pressure, make sure it is within speck, a bad FPR that allowed higher then normal fuel pressure could be causing your problem.

Injector pulse length is controlled by the ECU/ECM, have you checked for codes? 94

 

I want to check the fuel pressure but I do not have a gauge for hondas fuel, the one that connects to the output line of the fuel filter. I will try and find one. The FPR is definitely a possibility.

 

Ok, well I took the car to get the fuel pressure checked at an auto shop. The fuel pressure came back fine. I told them about my problem and they say either ECT or starter. But like I said, the starter used to be soo slow and still would turn the engine on first or second compression stroke. Now the starter is faster now that it is rebuilt so it shouldnt be because of a slow starter right?

Also, I have checked the ect and it is giving the correct voltages. Around 4.X Volts when cold and around 0.40 Volts when hot. Meaning it is working and giving the right readings. It was changed not so long ago anyways.

It is a weird problem since it only happens after being warmed up then it has to sit for about half and hour. If I turn it on right after I turn it off, it will start right up, only after waiting.

Cold starts right up.

I have seen this problem in other forums but no one has posted the answer. It is wierd that it happened right after cleaning the injectors. I have pulled them out gave the,m pressure. They are not leaking.

 

Its time to take a look at your ignition system. Pull the cap check the rotor, peek at the coil if you can. Most of the time when these cars would come into my shop with customers complaining of an extended crank as you are, 9 out of 10 times it was ignition related. Not that the ect wasnt a possibility, but when those thing go bad they usually dump a ton of fuel to where they foul the plugs out. Peek around and post your findings

 

"It is a weird problem since it only happens after being warmed up then it has to sit for about half and hour. If I turn it on right after I turn it off, it will start right up, only after waiting"

I must have missed that, hard to start AFTER sitting a bit, I don't see that mentioned untill now.

Anyhow, that would eliminate the ECT sensor as starting would get easier as the engine cools down, [sitting for 1/2 hr] and I agree with boostedgeezer I would be looking at spark as the problem, either ICM or coil, both are suseptable to heat failure. 94

 

Ok I just went to autozone to buy a new distrib cap, rotor and cables. The car has been heated and now I will wait an hour to check if it will fail the same way as before.

One thing I did notice while placing the distributor back on is that if I spinned the rotor with the cap on it would touch one of the caps "contacts" (i dont know what they are called). It wouldnt stop the rotor completly, it only scrapes it, but it is wierd that it only touches one. Will this dissapear with use? or should I be worried about it?

The rotor had no play to it at all.

 

Ok. I just tested it and its is exactly the same. Still takes about 5 seconds of cranking to start it.

This is only after it is hot and letting it sit for more than 15-30 minutes.

In the morning it turns on in less than half a second.

Could it be something to do with the vapor canister? I understand it sends fuel vapor into the intake when starting the engine. Lets say its clogged, would this missing vapor cause it to be hard to start?

 

Cap is not "centered", rotor should not touch any of the cap "contects", the smaller the gap the lower the resistance, and should be the same for all four.

You have a cheap Autozone cap that was not "centered" when machined.

Also, althought new cap, rotor and spark plug leads can't hurt, [unless it is a cheap stuff] the coil or ICM is the problem, not what you have replaced, as you have found out. 94

 

The coil is less than 2 years old. So I will check the ICM. When the ICM starts to go bad doesnt the tachometer start to go all over the place? I really do not want to change an expensive part like the ICM if that is not the problem. What else could I check or how could I check this one?

I just heated the car and I will wait about 30 minutes and check for spark at next crank. If there is spark I am guessing it would rule out ignition parts.

 

That is what I would do before replacing any parts, not only checking for spark, but how good the spark is.

Use a proper HEI spark tester so you can seehow good the spark is.

Just because a part is new or near new, does not mean it is not defective, I have installed brand new, [name brand] parts the did not work or failed within days or weeks of install.

I should also have mentioned, anytime there is an elecrical problem, or assumed electrical problem, CHECK THE GROUNDS, the best way is not to just eyeball them, disconnect/clean/reconnect, pay attention to the main grounds, batt, batt to chassis and chassis to engine, also the thermostat grounds, dash harness grounds and so on. 94

 

Ok. With the car heated and sitting for a while, I checked the spark while starting, it took about 5 seconds to start and there was spark, so this should prove that it is not ICM or spark related. The spark is strong, bright red/orange and cane jump at least 1 inch. I didnt try any more than an inch, but It definitely is a bright thick spark.

 

Then it is unlikely a spark, [coil/ICM] problem and we are back at fuel, [rich]. 94

 

Ok. Now how should I go on with checking the fuel? I know that there is good pressure. The fuel pump ALWAYS turn on when switching key to ACC position. And the ECT is sending the right voltages. What should I look for now? Or what tests could I run on an OBD1 ECU?

 

Ok so here are two videos, one being the first start of the day, taking less than 1 second to ignite. The other is after using the car awhile, then letting it sit for about 20min. It took about 3 seconds to start.

 

This probably isn't your problem but u could test and rule it out... I had a similar problem and it was the slightest leak of a head gasket. It would build enough pressure to squeeze a little coolant into 2 of cylinders and would make starting the car harder in the day. It was hardly noticeable in the coolant. I had to drive the car for 2 weeks before I could find a noticeable drop in coolant. You could do a compression test or test the coolant for ex gases.

Just a thought good luck with your fix. And your valves sound like they need adjusted.

 

Thank for the tip. I have checked compression and I have 150-160psi through all cylinders. The head gasket is new and torqued in january. It has been months with this failure and no loss of coolant. So I am only guessing it is not burning coolant.

In the second video there is two or three loud noises that are from the camera mic, I dont know if you thought they were valve noises. Is it was not those noises, how can you tell they need adjusting? If they are noisy? I would like to know cause I have always thought of my valves to be more noisy than most cars, I just thought it was because of older model.

 

It might have totally been those noises I heard I just thought I heard some chattering. If you just did the head gasket recently then they should have been set to spec recently. Plus microphones enhance noises so it may have not been anything. If there noisy though check them out. Also if u have a vtec the lmas might be going out. Good luck with the starting problem. I have a problem like that but it only happens when my tank is on empty so figure it's something with the fuel prime or pressure.