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Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help!

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Old Oct 26, 2002 | 07:44 PM
  #1  
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Default Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help!

Hey what up everyone. I have a YS1 cable tranny and everytime I shift to 3rd gear, it grinds. It used to only happen when I was at high RPM, It has steadily gotten worse, but now it grinds as low as 3-3500RPM! Anyone know what this is??Is this expensive to fix. Help is appreciated. Thanks
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Old Oct 26, 2002 | 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

We all have the same problem with older b-trannys. Try letting the RPMs fall more or just shove it in gear. Works for me.
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

Synchros gone. Put some honda mtl in it and it might get better. Or else its going to need to be repaired
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (TREVER)

It's that third gear synchro. It can't be repaired; synchros must be replaced.
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

Do you have a short shifter? If you do, that is what caused the problem in the first place. Short throw shifters really screw up your synchros. My friend put one on his car, and now he grinds gears way more than he used to.
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (V8killa1.8)

Do you have a short shifter? If you do, that is what caused the problem in the first place. Short throw shifters really screw up your synchros. My friend put one on his car, and now he grinds gears way more than he used to.
*taken from http://civic.indybbs.net *

Yes, you can damage your synchros, or at least wear them out more quickly with a short shifter than the OEM shifter.

The problem is that the gears need a fraction of a second to align properly and mesh smoothly.

It is the synchros that accomplish this by using a cushion of tranny fluid to transfer the motion of the fast moving synchro to the surface of the slow moving or still synchro. This transfer of energy takes a fraction of a second, but if your short shifter moves the gears into each other before the synchros have time to get the gears aligned and the speeds nearly equal, then you effectively are mashing the synchros together at disparate speeds which results in them wearing more quickly than if they were given time to come up to the same speed.

This doesn't mean that if you use a short shifter you are going to ruin your transmission or that if you don't use a short shifter that your transmission is going to last forever. It simply explains the way in which a short shifter can lead to shorter synchro life.


cliff notes: just because you have a short shifter doesnt mean that your synchro's are shot..it all depends on HOW you use the short shifter if you even have one


[Modified by FifthGearOnline.com, 7:39 PM 10/27/2002]
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (FifthGearOnline.com)

the cheapest/easiest solution/fix to a worn synchro is double-clutching
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (TREVER)

Synchros gone. Put some honda mtl in it and it might get better. Or else its going to need to be repaired
try the honda mtl....great stuff
the synchros will need to be replaced....so start saving
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Old Oct 27, 2002 | 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (keebler65)

the cheapest/easiest solution/fix to a worn synchro is double-clutching
How would you "FIX" the synchro by double-clutching?
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (gokoolFL)

hpefully, I'll have the $30 cure soon.
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 12:33 PM
  #11  
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (Mista Bone)

hpefully, I'll have the $30 cure soon.
What's that Mista Bone?
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

Your synchro is gone. You will have to buy the 3-4 set. The ideal solution will be to pull the tranny and replace the synchro. You may also want to inspect 1-2 sync set as well. Afterwards, make sure you look for gear wear.

The other solutions offered by the board are only band-aid fixes for the the underlying problem. You can avoid it for so long until you no longer can get into 3rd without some extra effort.

mario-
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (Mario_D)

Yep, you need a new 3rd gear synchro set. Happened to me in my prelude tranny. You'll eventually have to replace the 3rd gear set honda mtl will buy you a little time if you don't have the money. My set cost around 300. My brother had the same problem with his 94 ls tranny and paid about 285 with tax (just for the 3rd gear set).
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

you need to get a longer arm
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (V8killa1.8)

Do you have a short shifter? If you do, that is what caused the problem in the first place. Short throw shifters really screw up your synchros. My friend put one on his car, and now he grinds gears way more than he used to.
absolutely wrong idiot... hmmm ive had my SS for 4 years..
not one grind in my tranny.. do i have a magical tranny.. or some alien created
short shifter?
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (VTECxSiR)

easy killer short shifters do increase the load on synchros. Just because you have been lucky (so far) don't go preaching.
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Old Oct 28, 2002 | 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (V8killa1.8)

yeah I do have a short shifter
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 04:31 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (3rdGteg)

Trying to find a supplier in the US for the synchro.

When I find the ($30) cure, I'll be semi-rich!

Would you be willing to try a Mazda synchro??????
Toyota??????? Nissan?????

Ever wonder if they share the same synchros???????

I have access to a warehouse full of parts.

From what I know (limited, OK!) 92-01 GSR all use the same synchros. Now I'm not clear on the differences between the 90-93 LS, 94-01 LS, and JDM trannies.

For now I'm only gonna concentrate on 3rd gear synchros as this seems to be the "weakest link"

IF ANYONE has old/worn 3rd gears synchros, message me. You have to know EXACTLY what tranny they came out of. If you send me old synchros, you get the killer deal on new ones, (like just pay 1/2 price + S&H).

I expect these synchros to be about $30 each. Won't know for sure till EXACT match is found.

We know you can get a rebuild kit from Transtar with or without the synchros. Well looking through the dealer catalog (not same as online version) you should be able to order the synchros one at a time.

I honestly don't expect much headway till early next year.


[Modified by Mista Bone, 8:32 AM 10/29/2002]
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (Mista Bone)

Short shifters adding wear to the synchros makes perfect senese. They allow you to shift faster which means less time for the synchros to work which means additional wear. Now if you shift like normal and dont speed shift all day every day, I cant see them causing any additional wear as the synchros have the same amount of time to work. It just the shift arm is moving a shorter distance.

Kinda on the topic I guess, but what would cause 1st and 2nd to be stiff going in? They dont grind but they are not as smooth as they used to be. I mean they used to just slip right in, but now it feels alittle rougher and sometimes you kinda got to work it in. Kinda like girlfriends after you have had for a long time.

Does first gear have a synchro? I know reverse isnt. Actually, my first gear feels like my reverse. Just kinda stiff.

What does the shifter fork do? What does the throw out bearing do? These are two things I have heard mentioned and was wondering if they could possible be the problem.
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (b00stn)

This was a great post in the Integra forum.

I've been reading a lot of problems related to clutches and transmissions lately, and I thought I'd contribute some things I've learned. My day job as an engineer has me developing clutches and making them work with transmissions for major OEMs, so I have a fair grasp on the system. I am not a mechanic, however, so I haven't seen all of the problems and don't pretend to know how to fix them all. But hopefully this will help.
If you're driving down the road, and suddenly it's difficult or impossible to shift, it's probably the clutch, or the system that connects your left foot to the clutch. Here's what happens when you go to shift, normally, with the clutch:
1) You depress the clutch pedal, forcing hydraulic fluid through the pipes from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. The slave cylinder pushes on a fork, which has the "release" or "throwout" bearing on its length. This release bearing actuates the diaphragm spring fingers in the clutch, which removes the clamp load holding the disc between the pressure plate and flywheel. The disc is now free from the engine.
2) You move the shift lever into the next gear. In order for the shifting to take place, your transmission has to match the speed of the "input shaft" (the shaft that the disc is attached to) to the speed of the "main shaft" (the shaft that the differential and eventually the wheels are attached to). This is where the synchronizer comes in. The synchronizer is a cone-shaped friction clutch that moves in and accelerates/decelerates the input shaft to match the speed of the output shaft in a given gear ratio. For example, say 2nd gear at 40 MPH has your input shaft turning at 6000 RPM and the main shaft turning at 2000 RPM. Now, if you shift into 3rd gear, for that 2000 RPM of the mainshaft, the input shaft only has to turn at 3000 RPM. So the synchonizer decelerates the input shaft AND DISC to the new speed.
3) You let the engine speed drop to the correct speed, and re-engage the clutch to allow torque to once again be transmitted through the system.

Now one cause of hard shifting is synchronizer wear. Each time you shift, particuarly a hard downshift (4th to 2nd or something like that) causes your synchronizer in that gear to wear slightly. In severe cases, downshifts can increase the surface temperature of the synchro to over 1600 degrees F. Also, old or poor oil can contribute, as it will not allow the shifting components (levers, synchros, gears) to mesh properly. However, both of these causes happen over time and won't suddenly appear, particularly in all gears.

Most of the time, it's caused by the clutch NOT RELEASING THE DISC when you depress the pedal. If the disc is still clamped, even just a little bit, when you shift, the synchronizer must not only overcome the rotational inertia of the disc to change its speed, but also the friction caused by the clamping! Effectively, you're asking your synchronizer to accelerate THE WHOLE ENGINE to the new speed, if the clutch is still engaged when you shift. Not only does this make shifting hard, but it also is terrible for the synchro!

What would cause a clutch not to release the disc? Usually a loss of hydraulic pressure in the system. If the master cylinder, slave cylinder, or piping develops a leak, or air gets in the system (just like brakes) then you could have a problem. Less common would be something in the clutch breaking and preventing the release from happening.

So if you're having trouble shifting in ALL gears, diagnose the release system first, then the clutch, then the transmission.

Hope this wasn't too long and someone learns something.
As for your questions:

1. First gear does have a syncrho. The synchro set goes as follows:
1-2, 3-4, 5-R
2. The shift fork allows for the the synchro ring to be moved to the next corresponding gear depending if you are upshifting or downshifting.
3. Your issue with going into gear (1st) may just be a sign of wear and tear. If no grinds are apparent and there are no other issues with the transmission, then you are probably ok.

mario-


[Modified by Mario_D, 8:46 AM 10/29/2002]
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 08:20 AM
  #21  
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (Mario_D)

Found a good link for anyone interested in how transmissions work. Pretty cool link with moving pictures and stuff:

http://howstuffworks.lycoszone.com/transmission.htm
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (8000KReV)

I had that problem, which got progressively worse, until one afternoon, I couldn't get into any gear whatsoever. Turns out I had a cracked pressure plate. So it was the clutch, not the syncros. Have your clutch looked at, not too expensive.
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 09:41 AM
  #23  
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (TREVER)

easy killer short shifters do increase the load on synchros. Just because you have been lucky (so far) don't go preaching.
i dont call it preaching.. i call it learning how to shift WITH a SS.
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (Mista Bone)

Trying to find a supplier in the US for the synchro.

When I find the ($30) cure, I'll be semi-rich!

Would you be willing to try a Mazda synchro??????
Toyota??????? Nissan?????

Ever wonder if they share the same synchros???????

I have access to a warehouse full of parts.

From what I know (limited, OK!) 92-01 GSR all use the same synchros. Now I'm not clear on the differences between the 90-93 LS, 94-01 LS, and JDM trannies.

For now I'm only gonna concentrate on 3rd gear synchros as this seems to be the "weakest link"

IF ANYONE has old/worn 3rd gears synchros, message me. You have to know EXACTLY what tranny they came out of. If you send me old synchros, you get the killer deal on new ones, (like just pay 1/2 price + S&H).

I expect these synchros to be about $30 each. Won't know for sure till EXACT match is found.

We know you can get a rebuild kit from Transtar with or without the synchros. Well looking through the dealer catalog (not same as online version) you should be able to order the synchros one at a time.

I honestly don't expect much headway till early next year.


[Modified by Mista Bone, 8:32 AM 10/29/2002]
Mista Bone, I have a messed up 4th and 2nd gears synchro from a 96 LS how do I go about getting those deals; though I need the whole sleeve set
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Old Oct 29, 2002 | 04:04 PM
  #25  
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Default Re: Grinding when I shift to 3rd. Help! (3rdGteg)

if you need the whole sleeve/slider set, then your gonna have to see the dealer.

I'm just trying to get the brass rings, they see the most wear.
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