I just finished changing my timing belt and water pump. I put the timing belt starting from crank, to tensioner, to water pump, to cam gears. This is where I screwed up, I tightened the tensioner before turning the crank to check the timing. So as I'm turning the crank I noticed the timing was off. Is there a way to correct the timing? I placed the cam gears and the crank at TDC, but I'm not sure if I'm missing another full turn of the crank.

If I remember correctly, piston #1 should be up and the cam gears should be facing up also....?

 

that's correct. when u get the belt over the cam pulleys, loosen the tensioner and then start rotating the crankshaft. when you see the slack tighten up on t-belt, tighten the tensioner. the Helms says this is about 3 teeth on the pulley.

 

Yea, I got up to that. Everything is all put together and tightened up. But I'm worried that even tho my cam gears and crank says its TDC, the timing could be off still. Cuz I remember my friend was doing his timing belt way back, and when he put it back together, they cam gears and crank both was at TDC. When he tried to start the engine, it wouldn't. Later he found out it's cuz the timing was off.

You know how it takes two turns of the crank to get one full revolution of the cam? His cam and crank were both at TDC when only the crank should been at TDC and the cam shoulda been at BDC. I'm worried the same might happen to mine.

 

are your marks on the oil pump lined up?

 

Yea, the mark on the oil pump is up. I just don't wanna start the car and run the risk of messing up my valves. I need a for sure way to check if the timing is good.

 

Smash,

I am having a problem with my integra too that sounds very similar. Have you gotten your car to start at all? I have, it first runs great and timing is dead on at the 12 mark (3 lines on crank pully) then once i put a load on it (a/c or drive around block) it runs poorly and i re-check the timing and it lines up at the TDC mark on the pulley instead of the 12 mark. Anyone have any suggestions on what could be the cause of this? I have changed the timing (rotating crank gear one revolution to see if the bottom gear was 180 degrees off) didnt start. so i put it back to my original TDC on all gears, starts just runs poorly when drive.

Could i just have bent a valve or two? would it be noisy, because my engine sounds great. What are the symptoms. I just dont know how my timing changes when i check before i drive and after.

Also what about the water pump lining up? it spins freely and i dont understand and never knew it needed to be lined up. please elaborate...

 

I haven't tried to start my car yet cuz I'm worried that I'll mess up my valves. Can you take a picture and post up the mark you're talking about on the crank pulley?

 

if the arrow or mark on the inner crank pulley is pointing to the arrow on the oil pump housing, then your #1 piston is at TDC. If your cam pulleys are pointing straight up, they are at the right spot corresponding with #1 TDC. I think you're thinking too much about this.

 

ditto that. And water pump doesn't have an allignment. u can put allen keys through the holes in the cam cover to keep the cams at tdc while u put the belt on as well for added security. i've done this a million times, it's probably one of the easiest cars to do timing on.

 

I understand the correct markings and how to get all gears to TDC, my issue is the timing is changing from when i first set it and then drive it. Initially, the ignition timing (with timing light) 3 grouped markings on the crank pulley (12 degrees) is lined up with the reference point, then check later and the light shows the SINGLE mark on the pulley (TDC) is in line with the reference point . When i hold the RPM at 3k and check timing it seems to be ok, but when lower RPM it the timing is off again. Why is the timing changing before and after i drive? could moving the distributor fix this?

 

Hmm aight, I'll finish up the car today and see how it runs. Thanks for the help.

Pinche...I hope you resolve your problem soon.

 

damn. you just thread jacked. you need to jump the service connector under the dashboard when you adjust ignition timing.

 

you're talking about ignition timing, that doesn't have anything to do with the timing belt. ur ecu adjusts timing on it's own. to adjust it you need to jump the check engine light plug/service port and then adjust it using the distributor to advance or retard the timing. as long as the cams and oil pump are lined up you're good.

 

Hahah I know I'm being paranoid again, but just to be sure, the white mark is suppose to be at TDC right? Not the red one...

 

...one last confirmation guys...

 

yeah, think of red as being electrical. so you use the red mark when using timing light. white mark is for setting #1 at TDC.

 

You can always pull the dizzy cap off and when the #1 cylinder is at TDC, make sure the rotor is pointing at where the #1 plug wire would go, that method is pretty much fool-proof

 

TDC is the white mark. I can scan the page in the helms if you want it.

The red mark is used for timing with a light.....the red mark (with two little marks on either side of it) is located at your stock timing advance. Mine is 16 degrees.


What i dont understand is why you dont just turn the engine over by hand once you have everything set, timed, tensioned, and tightened? As long as you're turning it the correct direction and everything stays in time then you're good, no?

 

I took out spark plug number one after I placed the crank at TDC. Then I stuck a long skinny screw driver to check and see if piston #1 is all the way up and it was. So then I rechecked to make sure the cams are TDC. After that I placed the timing belt over the cams (the belt is already on the oil pump, tensioner, and water pump). I tighten the tensioner and then began turning the crank by hand until the cams go one revolution. When it's finished, the exhaust cam is at TDC while the intake cam is off buy a teeth or two. No matter how many times I redo it, that's the outcome.

 

After you get the crank and cams at TDC and install the belt (looks like you're doing this correct), are you loosening the tensioner bolt and turning the crank counterclockwise 3 teeth, then retightening the tensioner bolt? You need this three teeth rotation in order for the tensioner spring to pull out the slack. If this is what you're doing and things are still off you may need to replace the tensioner spring or tension it by hand.

 

Oh, I remember someone else mentioned the 3 teeth thing. But the crank doesn't have any teeth on it, are you talking about rotating the crank so the teeth on the cam moves?

 

Crank has teeth for the timing belt. It has to, that's the main purpose of the timing belt...keeping the cams in time with the crank. Helms says 3 teeth on the camshaft pulley.

If you cant even get both cams to line up the same then you have to be leaving a lot of slack between the two cams. Is the belt popping up between the cams or is is laying flat like its supposed to?

 

Don't go solely by the mark on the crank pulley unless you are positive it is dead on. Over time, some of the crank pulleys' outer portions spin and no longer line up correctly with TDC.

1. Have tensioner loose.
2. Get the mark on the inner crank cog/gear lined up with the arrow on the oil pump.
3. Get the cam gears roughly lined up ("Up" arrows point north, obviously).
4. Start feeding the belt on the exhaust side. Make sure the lateral marks of the exhaust cam gear are lined up parallel with the surface of the head (there will be very little slack in this side of the belt when you get it situated).
5. Feed the belt up around the tensioner and water pump to the intake cam gear.
6. Rotate the intake cam whichever way allows the belt to slip right on and have the least amount of slack between exhaust and intake cams.

All markings all lined up?

7. Rotate the crank counter-clockwise (the usual B-Series engine rotation) maybe 20-30 degrees so that all slack is completely removed from crank to exhaust cam, and exhaust cam to intake cam.
8. Use a pry bar or whatever you can use to pull up on the tensioner (how tight you want the belt to be is completely up to you).
9. Tighten the tensioner bolt.

 

Dang, you serious the crank cog can be off? how do you check for something like this?

 

The cog that is keyed onto the crank is practically failsafe. That is what should always be used to time the engine. Since the OEM crank pulleys themselves aren't entirely solid due to the dampening material, the outer portion of them (where the ignition timing marks are) can rotate. My personal car is off by about an inch on its circumference. And we've seen them out nearly 180-degrees before. So yeah... make sure the crank pulley hasn't spun, or ignition timing will definitely be off if you set it like that. :p

LOL. Nice. Our shop is actually on Trindle. If she hasn't seen Carlisle recently, A LOT has changed actually. She may be surprised to how it looks.