Please do not flame, if you disagree with certain aspects please explain why, and what you think would be the remedy for that problem.

I am in the process of making an NA LS/VTEC engine, B18B with P73 Head (JDM TypeR).

Stroke: 89mm (stock)
Rod Length: 141.178mm (gives R/S ratio of 1.586)
Deck Height: 211.84mm (stock)
Deck Clearance: 0.762mm (stock for TypeR, gives proper valve clearance but if can someone can show me that it is safer to go lower, which in turn gives a better burn, i will)
Piston Compression Height: 25.4mm (This is as small as I want to go)
Cylinder Head Volume: 42.7cc (Stock TypeR)
Piston Head Volume: -3.731cc (Roller Wave Piston)
Compression Ratio: 11:1
Cylinder Bore: 82mm (+1mm Bore)
Gasket Bore: 82mm (Not sure how the gasket bore affects the engine, please comment)

The pistons will be Endyn Roller Wave Pistons, the rods will be Crower rods...
The camshafts will be Skunk2 Stage 2 and with them will be Skunk2 Valvesprings
Skunk2 Intake Manifold and Comptech Extended 4-2-1 Racing Header will be on there as well....

Please comment on what could be improved and how you would go about doing it...

 

yay.
I getta be the first to slightly constructiveley critisize your setup.
LS/VTEC blow as a whole. Yes, they can make some good power, but it's not a reliable setup ie. they don't last long. I don't care wut anyone says about who built wut LS or B20 VTEC, they don't last. It's a proven fact.

You'll spend all this time & loot on the ticking time bomb known as an LS/VTEC or B20/VTEC build up, you've smoked a couple ricers with yer new shiny new engine setup, then, one dreaded night, your driving home from some race (legal or illegal) and your engine bombs unexpectedley or expectedley. "WTF" you say. Your motor is shot because of some leaky headgasket or poor oil flow to the head or block, or combo of other things that you didnt expect to happen....

Sure, any motor is a ticking time bomb, but you have more of chance that an LS/VTEC will bomb out quicker than a full on vtec engine. RELIABILITY is what my point is. Isn't that what you want? Isn't that what we all want?

Why not just use the block that your P73 head came from?

$.2 spent.


Modified by Katman at 11:46 PM 9/15/2003

 

I asked for no flaming... meaning dont just say it blows.

Not reliable? In terms of reliability issues the only stories you really hear about LS/VTEC are horror stories... so where is you basis for that? How many people say "My LS/VTEC has been running strong for a year now with no problems".. not that many because if it is built right then it is expected to run without problems.

Leaky headgasket? They now make headgaskets specifically for LS/VTEC.. so wrong...

Poor oil flow to the head? As long as oil lines are run then it is fine...

Poor oil flow to the block? Flow is not an issue unless I was putting in a block guard, which I am not.... however oil flow to the rods and pistons is an issue, I am currently trying to figure out to solve this problem... anybody have suggestions?

Things that I didn't expect to happen? I can't prove you wrong on this because this happens on EVERY car.... Do you expect that your pistons rings will give out while you are driving? No....

 

hmm... i don't think he was flaming...
but anyway, i think what you have is a pretty good build plan. Reliability will always be debated but its my $0.02 CDN that you should be ok with that setup
good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by razersharp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I asked for no flaming... meaning dont just say it blows.

Not reliable? In terms of reliability issues the only stories you really hear about LS/VTEC are horror stories... so where is you basis for that? How many people say "My LS/VTEC has been running strong for a year now with no problems".. not that many because if it is built right then it is expected to run without problems.

Leaky headgasket? They now make headgaskets specifically for LS/VTEC.. so wrong...

Poor oil flow to the head? As long as oil lines are run then it is fine...

Poor oil flow to the block? Flow is not an issue unless I was putting in a block guard, which I am not.... however oil flow to the rods and pistons is an issue, I am currently trying to figure out to solve this problem... anybody have suggestions?

Things that I didn't expect to happen? I can't prove you wrong on this because this happens on EVERY car.... Do you expect that your pistons rings will give out while you are driving? No.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

To each his own..

I wasn't saying your specific setup blows, with your choice of parts etc.. I said LS/VTEC's blow as a whole (I'm generalizing). I'm sticking to my guns tho, the whole point of my constructive criticism about an LS/VTEC engine setup (not your specific setup) is that reliability/life spand of an LS/VTEC will be an issue later on down the road, that's all...

Good luck with your setup. Flame my opinion, I don't care.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by razersharp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.
Poor oil flow to the block? Flow is not an issue unless I was putting in a block guard, which I am not.... however oil flow to the rods and pistons is an issue, I am currently trying to figure out to solve this problem... anybody have suggestions?
.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

i beleive u can use the ls 89 mm crank and rods in a gsr block..with little or no modification (which would void some of the mods below)

ive also seen many lsvtecs with the vtec oils squiters installed..make sure u have a good vtec oil pump..and the oil journal holes on the crank are super clean and chamferd(i think thats how its spelled)...i would balance the whole rotating assembly also..ive seen lsvtecs last and some blow..so im not really 100% sold but ive seen good power made with them (i prefure a big bore vtec motor)...hope this helps..just my .02 good luck on your build and keep us posted..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bruceleeroy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i beleive u can use the ls 89 mm crank and rods in a gsr block..with little or no modification (which would void some of the mods below)

ive also seen many lsvtecs with the vtec oils squiters installed..make sure u have a good vtec oil pump..and the oil journal holes on the crank are super clean and chamferd(i think thats how its spelled)...i would balance the whole rotating assembly also..ive seen lsvtecs last and some blow..so im not really 100% sold but ive seen good power made with them (i prefure a big bore vtec motor)...hope this helps..just my .02 good luck on your build and keep us posted..</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes...good point

 

By raising the Rod ratio (good for you, by the way) you are negating the fundamental idea of an LS/VTEC which is to get the torque down lower than the lofty 7000+ of vtec engines. This is accomplished with the cylinder filling properties at low RPM's of a low rod ratio engine. When you increase its rod ratio, it losses some of the low end properties and shifts the power band higher in general. If you want the displacement and dont really want the low end torque, then bore out a B18C, other wise, build the hell out of a stock rod ratio LS bottom end and sleeve it like its going out of style. Right now you effectivly have a GSR engine without the awesome crank and oil squirters and such. See what im trying to say? Good choice in brands, if I say so myself.

 

I was thinking about VTEC oil squirters but I thought that they didn't fit, anyone have more information on this?

The R/S ratio is not really what creates the torque, all though it does help. THe stroke is really what creates torque, along with displacement. By having a bigger stroke then a B18C and having almost the same R/S ratio I will create more torque than a B18C and still have the capability of high RPMS.. which is the purpose of LS/VTEC in the first place.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by razersharp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> By having a bigger stroke then a B18C and having almost the same R/S ratio I will create more torque than a B18C and still have the capability of high RPMS.. which is the purpose of LS/VTEC in the first place.</TD></TR></TABLE>

oook that's totally obvious about the whole reasoning behind an LS/VTEC; so where are you going with this?

Like the other fellas said, the best way to have an *almost* bullet proof LS/VTEC setup would be in using a B18C block, LS crank & rods, and some kind of semi high to high compression piston. Then you'll be able to utilize the oil spray jets and safely rev high without worries (to some extent). Don't forget that going up in liters lowers your powerband/redline, but with LS/VTEC I've seen powerbands reach the 10K zone; its pretty scary knowing an LS crank/block is capable of reving that high and living, lol. Btw, if you didnt know, the LS crank is not specially treated & balanced like DOHC VTEC cranks are from the factory. I believe thats where the LS/VTEC engines fail, when in high rpms there are vibrations that can break down the crank bearings over time, because of the lack of treatment the bastard red-headed LS crank does not get from mommy & daddy Honda.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because of the lack of treatment the bastard red-headed LS crank does not get from mommy & daddy Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, as much research and knowing the rod ratio, compression ratio and everything about the motor razersharp has learned, he`ll still experience exactly everything has stated.

I`ve seen this many many times. So, Katman's "opinion" could be an opinion to you (razersharp), when I've personally seen it to be fact on many occassions.

You can race all day and run the motor, but what's funny is when you hit the highway on the way home, you'll state exactly what Katman stated and end up towing your car home.

Why do I say that?

Katman's little "story" is EXACTLY what happened to my friend -- word for word.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poison &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Katman's little "story" is EXACTLY what happened to my friend -- word for word.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow, whatta coinkeedink

 

Did they build the engine correctly tho? I personally know someone who has built their LS/VTEC similarly except went turbo... so lower compression pistons... and a few other minor changes.. but he runs 15psi boost everyday... 25psi at the tracks.... the motor has been running without any problems for almost 2 years now...

 

im pro lsvtec/crvtec

sall i got to say

 

If you're gonna spend $300 on rods and stuffs, why not just get a b18c shortblock, slap on some pistons and call it a day. I would rather have a type r setup over lsvtec anyday.

 

The only reason a LS/VTEC is unreliable i because idiots expect to just slap on a vtec head and rev ls rods/bearing with a ls oil pump and that aint happening wonder why the redline is a 7000 for ls is because it is no ment for reving to 8200. If you do this set up put in gsr rod and main bearings and the crower rods is a nice choice.

 

i think the main reason also is the crank ...(but make sure u balance the whole assembley)...needs to be rebalanced for high rpm usage...ls/b20 cranks vibrate at higher rpm helping to cause the excesive ware and spun bearings....just my .02


Modified by bruceleeroy at 5:39 AM 9/18/2003

 

Nice choice of components, though I too would avoid sinking all that money into a frankenmotor. I'll bet you'd be a good deal happier with a sleeved B18c motor in the long run, and there are fewer things to go wrong. Pick up more displacement through bore rather than stroke. Go all the way to 85 or 86mm bore w/ a B18c block and stick with the GSR crank.

 

to help... i have also decided to use a GSR block as the shell... this will give me oil squirters and i wont have to run any special oil lines... it will still be the ls crank tho...

 

I recall someone mentioning that the LS crank smacks the B18c oir squirters when it's substituted. Can anyone confirm this? Solutions?

IMO the extra 1.8mm(37cc) of stroke you'll pick up isn't worth the hassle, but if you're determined to mix & match parts that's a better option than using an LS block.

 

i think it is worth it.... and thats what counts lol.... but i have heard that the crank hits the oil squirters as well but there is some way to avoid this.. just not sure