EFI PMS or GReddy Emanage?
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
EFI PMS or GReddy Emanage?
First off I have a Prelude Type-SH with the ATTS system. Don't want to get rid of it thus the reason why I have to get a PMS system. Hondata, Uberdata, etc is out due to this as I have to retain the entirely stock ECU.
Now, I've been reasearching the two units and they each have their own features but seemingly I'm really not sure which to choose. This build will be a very mild build and the internals of the engine will not be upgraded unless they break first but all the bolt ons will be installed. BTW don't tell me to talk to Sharkcohen, I've probably harassed him too much about the topic already. :laugh: Thanks Dave!
Here are some highlights for each unit that I can figure out.
Emanage:
* 16x16 fuel table, however it does it by modifying the MAP sensor input thus changing igntion timing tables as well.
* 16x16 ignition map though I'm sure this unit just extrapolates and guesstimates the ignition sequence. The manual states that it has a +/- 1 degree of error.
* Built in VTEC control and VTEC fuel correction factors.
* Built in datalogging or meaning I don't even have to buy more for more software.
* No CEL for VTM wire.
- Can be found used for around $350 w/ ignition/injector and support harnesses.
EFI PMS:
- Has three different fuel/ignition maps you can utilize via a change of a switch. Normally a stock, mild and wild ignition/fuel settings. I probably don't need this as it'll be on pump gas all the time N/A.
* Fuel is controlled by directly changing the pulse width (not confirmed... and I can't tell by the sad instruction manual when it comes down to telling you how they change the fuel / ignition settings) but the PMS does display injector duty cycle.
- Built in O2 sensor readout, but this is more of a novelty than anything as I'm just going to run a stock Honda O2 sensor so it'll be the same show you get from an Air/Fuel gauge or I can just hook up the trusty voltmeter into the wiring harness and do the same thing.
* Changing timing, it directly reads the crank angle sensor. This is not confirmed, can't tell by the dang manual! But is assumed when the unit can read total timing on the fly.
- Some internal barometer and engine temp sensors to compensate for when the engine is cold
- $500 used + needing to buy a OBDIIa harness for an additional $200.
Main Questions: (which I've posted on the EFI PMS yahoo group.. we'll see if I can find some answers)
1. For ignition timing does the PMS actually read the crank angle
sensor and place that in the base map and then allow you to modify the
base map? Or does it just interpolate and guess when the next
sequence should occur? I would only guess that it would do the later
as I don't recall the unit having a learning function.
2. Injector control is done by...? Most other piggyback units modify
the MAP/MAF values by +/- % to those values so the OEM ECU will change
the amount of fuel thus not having direct control over the injector
duty cycle and quite possibly changing the ignition timing in the
process. The manual makes it seem like the PMS has full control over
the injector duty cycle if this is the case how is that done as in
what does the PMS monitor to ensure correct injector firing/duration
sequences? Again coming back to the if or if not the unit receives
and interpets crank angle sensor information.
3. Honda VTEC engagement RPM control... possible without throwing a
CEL code for the VTM wire?
4. Also VTEC related, the fuel/timing maps for the VTEC map can be
done in the NO2 map? Yes? The Honda PMS manual doesn't mention VTEC
at all.
Overall the EFI PMS seems more powerful but considering the amount of work that I'm going to do will the Emanage be powerful enough for me? Plus w/o knowing the answer to the first two questions in particular the EFI PMS, if it changes the settings the same way the Emanage does, isn't any more powerful than the Emanage for a N/A application. It has a few more output displays as in it can show you injector duty cycle, timing, O2 sensor voltage but really all that is telling you what an OBDII scanner would be able to do. But then again, that is only if it modifies the signals similar to an Emanage.
Sooo... which one? :D
Now, I've been reasearching the two units and they each have their own features but seemingly I'm really not sure which to choose. This build will be a very mild build and the internals of the engine will not be upgraded unless they break first but all the bolt ons will be installed. BTW don't tell me to talk to Sharkcohen, I've probably harassed him too much about the topic already. :laugh: Thanks Dave!
Here are some highlights for each unit that I can figure out.
Emanage:
* 16x16 fuel table, however it does it by modifying the MAP sensor input thus changing igntion timing tables as well.
* 16x16 ignition map though I'm sure this unit just extrapolates and guesstimates the ignition sequence. The manual states that it has a +/- 1 degree of error.
* Built in VTEC control and VTEC fuel correction factors.
* Built in datalogging or meaning I don't even have to buy more for more software.
* No CEL for VTM wire.
- Can be found used for around $350 w/ ignition/injector and support harnesses.
EFI PMS:
- Has three different fuel/ignition maps you can utilize via a change of a switch. Normally a stock, mild and wild ignition/fuel settings. I probably don't need this as it'll be on pump gas all the time N/A.
* Fuel is controlled by directly changing the pulse width (not confirmed... and I can't tell by the sad instruction manual when it comes down to telling you how they change the fuel / ignition settings) but the PMS does display injector duty cycle.
- Built in O2 sensor readout, but this is more of a novelty than anything as I'm just going to run a stock Honda O2 sensor so it'll be the same show you get from an Air/Fuel gauge or I can just hook up the trusty voltmeter into the wiring harness and do the same thing.
* Changing timing, it directly reads the crank angle sensor. This is not confirmed, can't tell by the dang manual! But is assumed when the unit can read total timing on the fly.
- Some internal barometer and engine temp sensors to compensate for when the engine is cold
- $500 used + needing to buy a OBDIIa harness for an additional $200.
Main Questions: (which I've posted on the EFI PMS yahoo group.. we'll see if I can find some answers)
1. For ignition timing does the PMS actually read the crank angle
sensor and place that in the base map and then allow you to modify the
base map? Or does it just interpolate and guess when the next
sequence should occur? I would only guess that it would do the later
as I don't recall the unit having a learning function.
2. Injector control is done by...? Most other piggyback units modify
the MAP/MAF values by +/- % to those values so the OEM ECU will change
the amount of fuel thus not having direct control over the injector
duty cycle and quite possibly changing the ignition timing in the
process. The manual makes it seem like the PMS has full control over
the injector duty cycle if this is the case how is that done as in
what does the PMS monitor to ensure correct injector firing/duration
sequences? Again coming back to the if or if not the unit receives
and interpets crank angle sensor information.
3. Honda VTEC engagement RPM control... possible without throwing a
CEL code for the VTM wire?
4. Also VTEC related, the fuel/timing maps for the VTEC map can be
done in the NO2 map? Yes? The Honda PMS manual doesn't mention VTEC
at all.
Overall the EFI PMS seems more powerful but considering the amount of work that I'm going to do will the Emanage be powerful enough for me? Plus w/o knowing the answer to the first two questions in particular the EFI PMS, if it changes the settings the same way the Emanage does, isn't any more powerful than the Emanage for a N/A application. It has a few more output displays as in it can show you injector duty cycle, timing, O2 sensor voltage but really all that is telling you what an OBDII scanner would be able to do. But then again, that is only if it modifies the signals similar to an Emanage.
Sooo... which one? :D
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