Double Clutching
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, nc, usa
Re: Double Clutching (RedEJ1)
Ok,,,,double clutching is simply letting the clutch out as you pass through neutral on the way to your next gear......This actually slows your shifting down....no advantage...
Older vehicles....like farm trucks... didn't usually have any synchronization capabilities......you had to double clutch to get everything in synch again.....Pain. Absolutely no reason to do this under ANY circumstance.
Similarly,, you can change gears without using clutch.....again on older trucks ,,ie school buses, you only used the clutch starting out if first gear.....s
The basic principle is this. Engine speed vs. wheel speed will always synch up with a gear Somewhere in the RPM range...... No matter what speed you're going if you rev up the engine at some point the gears will be going at the same speed and synch up...........
Disclaimer.....with the advent of hydraulic.....this is not always very healthy for the tranny. Shifting into another gear is now done with pressure to change the gears....if you don't disengage the clutch the fluid paths necessary to change the gear may not be the same and can do damage.....unlikely since you can probably change gears even if the car is turned on but you get the idea........
As you drive down the road try and go from 3rd to 4th by letting off the gas at the same time you pull the stick out of fourth. Immediately put pressure to put it to fourth. As your tach does down,,,ie RPM decreased it will slip into 4th at the right speed and you can give it gas again.....Likewise to down shift you have to Increase the rpms to get the engine speed up to go into a lower gear....
Pretty simple but not really too healthy on your gears since they are jammed together while still under torque.
Older vehicles....like farm trucks... didn't usually have any synchronization capabilities......you had to double clutch to get everything in synch again.....Pain. Absolutely no reason to do this under ANY circumstance.
Similarly,, you can change gears without using clutch.....again on older trucks ,,ie school buses, you only used the clutch starting out if first gear.....s
The basic principle is this. Engine speed vs. wheel speed will always synch up with a gear Somewhere in the RPM range...... No matter what speed you're going if you rev up the engine at some point the gears will be going at the same speed and synch up...........
Disclaimer.....with the advent of hydraulic.....this is not always very healthy for the tranny. Shifting into another gear is now done with pressure to change the gears....if you don't disengage the clutch the fluid paths necessary to change the gear may not be the same and can do damage.....unlikely since you can probably change gears even if the car is turned on but you get the idea........
As you drive down the road try and go from 3rd to 4th by letting off the gas at the same time you pull the stick out of fourth. Immediately put pressure to put it to fourth. As your tach does down,,,ie RPM decreased it will slip into 4th at the right speed and you can give it gas again.....Likewise to down shift you have to Increase the rpms to get the engine speed up to go into a lower gear....
Pretty simple but not really too healthy on your gears since they are jammed together while still under torque.
for you 
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 1
From: Canada
Re: Double Clutching (Primetime2628)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Primetime2628 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Absolutely no reason to do this under ANY circumstance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure there is, I have a dead 3rd gear synchro..
Sure there is, I have a dead 3rd gear synchro..
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,985
Likes: 1
From: Boston, MA
Re: Double Clutching (LSVTEC 91 Civic)
someone once told me it was also advantageous in cornering (ie autocrosses) when you want to accelerate out of a curve while maintaining the momentum of your car...sounded logical to me, but ive never heard anyone else ever mention this
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Caracas, Venezuela
Re: Double Clutching (Primetime2628)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Primetime2628 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok,,,,double clutching is simply letting the clutch out as you pass through neutral on the way to your next gear......This actually slows your shifting down....no advantage...
Older vehicles....like farm trucks... didn't usually have any synchronization capabilities......you had to double clutch to get everything in synch again.....Pain. Absolutely no reason to do this under ANY circumstance.
Similarly,, you can change gears without using clutch.....again on older trucks ,,ie school buses, you only used the clutch starting out if first gear.....s
The basic principle is this. Engine speed vs. wheel speed will always synch up with a gear Somewhere in the RPM range...... No matter what speed you're going if you rev up the engine at some point the gears will be going at the same speed and synch up...........
Disclaimer.....with the advent of hydraulic.....this is not always very healthy for the tranny. Shifting into another gear is now done with pressure to change the gears....if you don't disengage the clutch the fluid paths necessary to change the gear may not be the same and can do damage.....unlikely since you can probably change gears even if the car is turned on but you get the idea........
As you drive down the road try and go from 3rd to 4th by letting off the gas at the same time you pull the stick out of fourth. Immediately put pressure to put it to fourth. As your tach does down,,,ie RPM decreased it will slip into 4th at the right speed and you can give it gas again.....Likewise to down shift you have to Increase the rpms to get the engine speed up to go into a lower gear....
Pretty simple but not really too healthy on your gears since they are jammed together while still under torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
never seen soo much bullshit and truth tighted together that much.
Double clutching does slow down shifting, but it's meant to be done at downshifting and i haven't seen anyone that needed to downshift quick. When you're double clutching, you're actually doing the syncros work, there fore increasing his life span. What he said is right as where does it comes from.. btw: it's like this, you're on 4th, step on the clutch, let the gear in neutral and let the clutch out, acelerate high put the clutch in, put the car in third and let the clutch out, if you do it right, the engine shouldn't catch the tranny in revs, it should stay right where it should be, dunno if that makes sense to ya
Shifting without clutch, his explanation was right as well, altough you can still do it, it's harder (especially on cars that rev as high as honda do) but it can be done, and once you get the hang of it you can do it pretty easy, off course, it varies from car to car. Be carefull, you can break your tranny
Older vehicles....like farm trucks... didn't usually have any synchronization capabilities......you had to double clutch to get everything in synch again.....Pain. Absolutely no reason to do this under ANY circumstance.
Similarly,, you can change gears without using clutch.....again on older trucks ,,ie school buses, you only used the clutch starting out if first gear.....s
The basic principle is this. Engine speed vs. wheel speed will always synch up with a gear Somewhere in the RPM range...... No matter what speed you're going if you rev up the engine at some point the gears will be going at the same speed and synch up...........
Disclaimer.....with the advent of hydraulic.....this is not always very healthy for the tranny. Shifting into another gear is now done with pressure to change the gears....if you don't disengage the clutch the fluid paths necessary to change the gear may not be the same and can do damage.....unlikely since you can probably change gears even if the car is turned on but you get the idea........
As you drive down the road try and go from 3rd to 4th by letting off the gas at the same time you pull the stick out of fourth. Immediately put pressure to put it to fourth. As your tach does down,,,ie RPM decreased it will slip into 4th at the right speed and you can give it gas again.....Likewise to down shift you have to Increase the rpms to get the engine speed up to go into a lower gear....
Pretty simple but not really too healthy on your gears since they are jammed together while still under torque.</TD></TR></TABLE>
never seen soo much bullshit and truth tighted together that much.
Double clutching does slow down shifting, but it's meant to be done at downshifting and i haven't seen anyone that needed to downshift quick. When you're double clutching, you're actually doing the syncros work, there fore increasing his life span. What he said is right as where does it comes from.. btw: it's like this, you're on 4th, step on the clutch, let the gear in neutral and let the clutch out, acelerate high put the clutch in, put the car in third and let the clutch out, if you do it right, the engine shouldn't catch the tranny in revs, it should stay right where it should be, dunno if that makes sense to ya
Shifting without clutch, his explanation was right as well, altough you can still do it, it's harder (especially on cars that rev as high as honda do) but it can be done, and once you get the hang of it you can do it pretty easy, off course, it varies from car to car. Be carefull, you can break your tranny
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Greensboro, nc, usa
Re: Double Clutching (GZERO)
OK,,,gotta admit it got pretty loose in there with the hydrualics........I was referring to some of the more exotic cars and those with auto trannys.........woops
And you're all correct that you can do it and there are time that it could be advantageous.........but only if you know what's going on....
My son was doing it and I was afraid he'd tear out some gears.....so I showed him the correct way......I didn't want to encourage anyone without them having the correct instruction.
I grew up on farm trucks.....62 Fords and IH. plus driving an old school bus in 72....
Lots of stuff that was poiunded in my head that no longer is useful..........DUH
And you're all correct that you can do it and there are time that it could be advantageous.........but only if you know what's going on....
My son was doing it and I was afraid he'd tear out some gears.....so I showed him the correct way......I didn't want to encourage anyone without them having the correct instruction.
I grew up on farm trucks.....62 Fords and IH. plus driving an old school bus in 72....
Lots of stuff that was poiunded in my head that no longer is useful..........DUH
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Caracas, Venezuela
Re: Double Clutching (Primetime2628)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Primetime2628 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK,,,gotta admit it got pretty loose in there with the hydrualics........I was referring to some of the more exotic cars and those with auto trannys.........woops
And you're all correct that you can do it and there are time that it could be advantageous.........but only if you know what's going on....
My son was doing it and I was afraid he'd tear out some gears.....so I showed him the correct way......I didn't want to encourage anyone without them having the correct instruction.
I grew up on farm trucks.....62 Fords and IH. plus driving an old school bus in 72....
Lots of stuff that was poiunded in my head that no longer is useful..........DUH</TD></TR></TABLE>
i understand, and yes, to do all this type of things you have to have an idea on how they work, because you can breake a lot of stuff
And you're all correct that you can do it and there are time that it could be advantageous.........but only if you know what's going on....
My son was doing it and I was afraid he'd tear out some gears.....so I showed him the correct way......I didn't want to encourage anyone without them having the correct instruction.
I grew up on farm trucks.....62 Fords and IH. plus driving an old school bus in 72....
Lots of stuff that was poiunded in my head that no longer is useful..........DUH</TD></TR></TABLE>
i understand, and yes, to do all this type of things you have to have an idea on how they work, because you can breake a lot of stuff
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Re: Double Clutching (RedEJ1)
Double clutching is used primarily in downshifts, mostly to save your synchros from doing more work then they have to.
Lets say your slowing down off the interstate in 5th and will just veer off to the right and continue on the road. You'll be going roughly 20mph through the turn and you wont accereate very well staying in 5th gear. So you go to neutral, let out clutch, rev to appx where your going to be in the rpms in whichever gear you want to go into, put into gear, let out clutch.
Example, I'd be at roughly 4.5k rpms at 20mph in 1st gear, so if I wanted to be in 1st exiting the turn I'd come out of 5th, let clutch out, rev to 4.5, clutch in, 1st gear, clutch out. Much smoother than simply shifting into 1st (if it would even let me).
Its used very much in auto-x as you learn to heel-toe you can brake and bump the revs while shifting in a turn for a smooth downshift and then acelereate through the turn. Takes a bit of practice and isnt really needed in daily driving.
Lets say your slowing down off the interstate in 5th and will just veer off to the right and continue on the road. You'll be going roughly 20mph through the turn and you wont accereate very well staying in 5th gear. So you go to neutral, let out clutch, rev to appx where your going to be in the rpms in whichever gear you want to go into, put into gear, let out clutch.
Example, I'd be at roughly 4.5k rpms at 20mph in 1st gear, so if I wanted to be in 1st exiting the turn I'd come out of 5th, let clutch out, rev to 4.5, clutch in, 1st gear, clutch out. Much smoother than simply shifting into 1st (if it would even let me).
Its used very much in auto-x as you learn to heel-toe you can brake and bump the revs while shifting in a turn for a smooth downshift and then acelereate through the turn. Takes a bit of practice and isnt really needed in daily driving.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines
Re: Double Clutching (blah13)
Heel-toe. Now that's something worth learning. Even if you don't get to use it too often, it's so cool just knowing how to do it. Takes a lot of practice, but it does wonders when you take on the corners.
An attempt to explain how it's done:
You are approaching corner in 4th. Step on brake with right toe. While keeping right toe on brake, SIMULTANEOUSLY step on clutch pedal with left foot, blip gas pedal with right heel, while rapidly downshifting to 2nd or 3rd. Remove right toe from brake and step on gas as left foot lets go of clutch pedal, and take the turn like you are the ****. Good luck!
Modified by SiRP at 7:02 PM 7/18/2004
An attempt to explain how it's done:
You are approaching corner in 4th. Step on brake with right toe. While keeping right toe on brake, SIMULTANEOUSLY step on clutch pedal with left foot, blip gas pedal with right heel, while rapidly downshifting to 2nd or 3rd. Remove right toe from brake and step on gas as left foot lets go of clutch pedal, and take the turn like you are the ****. Good luck!
Modified by SiRP at 7:02 PM 7/18/2004
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines
Re: Double Clutching (Milano98teg)
Well, I'm way short of 6'5", so i guess being short does have some advantages. Just curious tho - is it the legs or the big feet (at 6'5", you SHOULD have big feet)? 
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2004
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Re: Double Clutching (SiRP)
heel toe is so ******* hard!
i have to put my heel on the brake and then toe on the gas after, i cant turn my foot far enough without braking way too hard if i go toe on brake and heel on gas, i gotta do it backwards
i have to put my heel on the brake and then toe on the gas after, i cant turn my foot far enough without braking way too hard if i go toe on brake and heel on gas, i gotta do it backwards
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines
Re: Double Clutching (Azcheron)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Azcheron »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heel toe is so ******* hard!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Like i said, P R A C T I C E. Car was jerking all over the place when i first tried it out.
You know what would help? Aftermarket pedals. The ones with extended gas pedals.
I have Sparco's, and the gas pedal - while already being longer and wider than stock -
actually has a extra amount of metal sticking out of the lower left side. Perfect for the heel.
Get the ones where you have to drill the stock pedals and bolt them on.
Don't get the clip-ons. They suck.
Best to practice in village streets at slow speeds first. Good luck!
I never tried the heel-on-brake, toe-on-gas version, and i don't think i even wanna try.
The aftermarket pedals i mentioned work well with (and are designed for) toe-on-brake, heel-on-gas applications.
Like i said, P R A C T I C E. Car was jerking all over the place when i first tried it out.
You know what would help? Aftermarket pedals. The ones with extended gas pedals.
I have Sparco's, and the gas pedal - while already being longer and wider than stock -
actually has a extra amount of metal sticking out of the lower left side. Perfect for the heel.
Get the ones where you have to drill the stock pedals and bolt them on.
Don't get the clip-ons. They suck.
Best to practice in village streets at slow speeds first. Good luck!
I never tried the heel-on-brake, toe-on-gas version, and i don't think i even wanna try.
The aftermarket pedals i mentioned work well with (and are designed for) toe-on-brake, heel-on-gas applications.
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