I have just bought a 1993 del sol with a d16z and would like to boost my hp without a swap , I have already added a dc sports header and obx cat and muffler and a aem cold air so now where do I go (cam, cam gear, pullys)????? any help would be great and thanks for your time , Chris

 

hey i have the exact same engine...i was just wondering if the header made a big differnece or what?

 

you could do so many different things, but it all depends. what do you want to do? all motor, turbo, nitrous?? how fast do you want to be??? 12sec 15sec??? make some decisions then go from there. you could go with a nice turbo or nos or build it and get a p&p new cam. but first you have to set a goal.

 

a cam helps a lot, even more when combined with valve springs and a cam gear. you could rev up to 9k, and make power the whole way. get a throttle body off an integra (pref. a gsr or type r) of the same year and bolt that on, get a v-afc after the above is done. get dyno tuning.

 

if you really want more power........ you could spend a bunch of money on bolt ons, or buy a b16/b18 motor and have more power for less $$ spend, and more room to grow later.

 

what are you talking about?? a swap costs WAY more than making a gast z6 does!

here is the 3 step route to going fast with a z6

1.catback exhaust $500
2.greddy turbo kit NEW $1400
3.Boost controler $3-$150
4.Camshaft $300
5.Spare z6 engine(just in case) $free-$600

you can get all the above products WAY cheaper used and you will smoke a b16a or b18b. not to mention your now TURBO. a good b16 can cost around $2300-$2600. installation is like $800, mount kit(not required but reccomended) $300. as you can see a d16 with the mods above will pound a b16, and you can always expand on the d16 even more; FMIC, cam gears, pistons, rods, valve springs and retainers, overbore, stroke, and it will most always be cheaper than a b16 or b18. not to mention shops sometimes give away d series engines.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you really want more power........ you could spend a bunch of money on bolt ons, or buy a b16/b18 motor and have more power for less $$ spend, and more room to grow later.</TD></TR></TABLE>

WHY??????? Reliability, Reliability, Reliability.

A b18b engine isn't that expensive and runs hard. Once you get tired of that power then turbo, if you want to go that route.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tek_civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is the 3 step route to going fast with a z6

1.catback exhaust $500
2.greddy turbo kit NEW $1400
3.Boost controler $3-$150
4.Camshaft $300
5.Spare z6 engine(just in case) $free-$600
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That adds up to $3000

And then you have an unreliable piece of **** with a crappy turbo kit. That $3000 would buy you a B18C1 with 170 bone stock dead reliable hp.

And you talk about further room to grow after that - well if you're going to dump a $3000 chunk initially i'd rather have a better platform to start with.

 

in the long run you can make the b18 and d16 just as fast as each other. but see the thing is is he can build his z6 and work alot of b18's.

also his post says " without a swap" so next time at least respect your fellow h-ters and give posts that will help him, not just turn into another b vs d series battle.

but back to the subject: i say depending on your budget go turbo or nitrous, or both. if you do decide on a goal like i mentioned before then you might want to hit some nice 12-13 sec and you should get a kit like revhard, fmax, drag. they are great. if you are poor like most of us, than go a cheaper rout, nitrous. you could get a whole nos kit with guages, heater and everything for like 1000. maybe you could hit some 14's.

 

I was just pointing out that there are better ways to go about it than trying to make a poor breathing engine go fast.

 

i wouldnt settle for anything else than a b18c5 if you can afford it, it is the best choine N/a hands down

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM STYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldnt settle for anything else than a b18c5 if you can afford it, it is the best choine N/a hands down</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha! and whys that?

For the same price you could build a B20/VTEC setup. But it didnt come out of a hype-arrrrrrrrr

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM STYL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wouldnt settle for anything else than a b18c5 if you can afford it, it is the best choine N/a hands down</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now theres a guy who's actually thinking.

 

how will the z6 be unreliable with the setup i listed above? there is something called a boost controller, i think i listed it. cool function, boost-no boost-boost-no boost- boost-.... how can you argue that its not reliable then? and engines can be made to breath easier. and do you think he is going to be able to do a b18c swap on his own? a shop would most likely do it and they will want to use a mount kit, then shift linkages, then labor, a little more $ that all costs. an si or ex with a greddy turbo kit and exhaust should be able to easily take a b16a or b18b civic si or ex, with some money left to spare. and you can also go the used route and get all the above parts a LOT cheaper, and used engines arn't always such a reliable thing, rebuild costs are expensive too.

ps. IM me if you want to go the nitrous route, im selling a NX wet kit with bottle warmer and psi gague for $400+shipping.

 

If you don't plan on going any faster than 12 seconds the D series can get you there faster and cheaper with the same level of reliability if not more. I am building a D block with SRP pistons, Eagle rods, ACL bearings, and a Golden Eagle block guard. I will be spraying 100-125 shot. The setup will cost me about $1500 and I am doing almost all labor except machining like the honing and the block guard being welded in. Tell me your B series will beat it for less money. Tell me you can even swap yourself a B series for $1500.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you don't plan on going any faster than 12 seconds the D series can get you there faster and cheaper with the same level of reliability if not more. I am building a D block with SRP pistons, Eagle rods, ACL bearings, and a Golden Eagle block guard. I will be spraying 100-125 shot. The setup will cost me about $1500 and I am doing almost all labor except machining like the honing and the block guard being welded in. Tell me your B series will beat it for less money. Tell me you can even swap yourself a B series for $1500. </TD></TR></TABLE>

$1500 just for the parts in the motor....

How much is the nitrous kit?

How much is the machine shop bill?

What other parts (bolt ons, cam, etc, etc) will you be using in this setup? If you already have it, it still needs to be counted toward the total cost.

 

SRP 10.5:1 .020 overbore pisons
and Eagle Rods w/wrist pins, rings, rod bolts..$700
ACL Bearings...$100
Golden Eagle block guard...$90
Zex Kit (wasn't included in cost)...$490
DSM 450cc injectors...$60
255lph hp fuel pump...$120
Hondata S200...$245

Gaskets and Machine work....$300-$400

Total Cost will be just slightly over $2000 and then there will be tuning. The $1500 was only including the shortblock and machine work, not the fuel management and Zex kit, sorry.

For about $2500 including tuning.....what swap is going to beat my 125 shot D Series? Thats going to be around 240whp and even more torque.

Also my I/H/E price is kind of high because I went with high name brands, AEM CAI, DC Sports 4-1, and Tanabe Racing Medallion. I also have a test pipe. These I don't think are necessary to compare in the pricing of my build up because most people add these bolt ons to their swaps too.

 

When you build this motor - you going to use a new headgasket too? Add another $100...

What about intake/exhaust/header? I'm going to conservatively place that at $500.

And by the time tuning is done, probably looking at $3000. And bottle refills too.

Sure it may be faster on the track, but still going to be weak on the street, since you cant use that 125 shot all the time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When you build this motor - you going to use a new headgasket too? Add another $100... </TD></TR></TABLE>
That was included in my "Gaskets and machine work" price of $300-$400.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What about intake/exhaust/header? I'm going to conservatively place that at $500.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Read the end of my last post I edited it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">since you cant use that 125 shot all the time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why not? I don't race all the time, and I don't get on it at every red light. I only race when it's worth my time. It's stupid to beat on your motor everytime you drive it anyways. At minimum I drive conservatively 6 out of 7 days a month. I'lll race maybe one night a week and 90% of the time it will be at the track.

 

So, my 'estimate' is off by $100.

I never said you couldnt use the 125 shot all the time, but if you do bottle refills will get rather expensive and so will front tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, my 'estimate' is off by $100.</TD></TR></TABLE>
We're back to $2500 including tuning.

 

I'm not saying this isnt the way to go. THere's no "right" way to make HP with the car - i think you provide a viable alternative to turbo or a motor swap. But if you're starting from scratch and building a motor, buying a nitrous kit/hondata, etc, etc - the costs always manage to find a way to creep up on you for big projects.

If i were doing this 'project' i'd rather swap in a B18C1 as it would be less hassle for me, since there's no tuning or machine work involved and roughly the same cost.

 

Only thing about that is I doubt a B18C1 would handle a 125 shot for long. You'll be back at the starting point again having to build a stronger shortblock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Only thing about that is I doubt a B18C1 would handle a 125 shot for long. You'll be back at the starting point again having to build a stronger shortblock.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well my point was that it may not have the ultimate power of a 125-shot, but will provide more power for daily driving.

 

I will have to agree with Tec_civic on this. The small turbo like a carb legal greddy will work almost any stock Honda block out there. A b18c puts out 170 at the flywheel that equals to (with a 18% loss drivetrain). about 150 hp to the wheel and about 136 lbs to the flywheel = about 125 to the wheel. A turbo civic without even an intercooler can produce about 160 hp and about 135-140 lbs at 7-8 psi with the right equipment. The cost would be about 2800 dollars for a setup like that. You wont need any other special equipment unless you want to build a V8 killer. In my opinion the d16z6 has gobs of potential. Remember also that the b18c weighs about 260 lbs more then the d16z6 motor. The nitrous is another route you can take and it is so much cheaper to go with. If you have any questions or would like somewone to help you build your ride . Look us up at http://mysite.verizon.net/res1ux6o/index.html