would it work? ^

 

yes. any d series can be mixed around .

 

would it be worth it tho. it would raise the compression alot.

 

i dunno . i dont know what that head is off of. did u put them into a compression calc to find out?? the z1 is an odd ball motor, i dunno what its from.
Rods

Engine Stroke Rod Length Rod: Stroke Ratio Deck Height
D16A1,A6,Z6,

Y5,Y7,Y8,ZC
90mm 137mm 1.52 212
D15B1,B2,B8,B7 84.5mm 134mm 1.59 207.45
D15Z1 84.5mm 137mm 1.62 207.45

 

it's from a vx ( 92-95)

 

vtec-e is very different. it has roller rockers, one intake valve opens for fuel economy, then two, then vtec.

if i was you i would stay away fron that bastard child of motor.

 

alright. well i found a y7 for 250$ running with almost 100k miles its real clean but i think im just gonna go with a z6 head. or just buy a z6 and use my si tranny with lightened flywheel and stage 3 clutch

 

they're not all three stage vtec, but it is a very strange head. i've been considering the same type of thing on my z6.

i was gonna add to that but my network had a minicrash about two hours ago and now i have no idea where i was going with that. you looking for a cam? valves/springs, etc?

 

bump for this. from what i got with the numbers i had which were admittedly not ideal, with stock valves you should hit around 9.8:1 CR. someone can check my math if you want. i didn't get the actual cumbustion chamber volume, just used what i had from both engines to solve for it, then plugged that into the formula for compression ratio. had to make a few assumtions, like gasket thickness and deck clearance, i figured they were the same in both engines.

i'll try to find the numbers again but i can't find that faq with all the specs for every engine. might have them somewhere else or in my notes at my apt (i'm away from home till tues)

if anyone finds that faq a linc would be sweet, if not i'll see what i can do, and try to get pics of the head so you guys can see, it interesting, not sure what advantages it may or may not have but i'd like to find out.

 

bump. looking for knowledge.

who here's a machinist? engine builder? engineer...etc

 

your compression will be like 12:1. But it won't be a good performance upgrade, because the ports are TINY, and can't be ported because of water passages or some such nonsense.

 

The only reason on the planet to go with ANYTHING D15Z1 is if you want to improve your MPG. Otherwise, virtually ANY other motor would be a better choice.

 

i'm gonna try this and see what itll do. already priced out valvetrain goodies and i think i can get the cam reground by bisimoto.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thehatchninja &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your compression will be like 12:1. But it won't be a good performance upgrade, because the ports are TINY, and can't be ported because of water passages or some such nonsense.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not trying to be a douche but what are you basing the 12:1 cr on? i didn't have all the numbers i wanted but i came up with 9.8:1. how different are the pistons/cumbustion chamber/valve heads, etc.? i assumed that the deck clearance chamber volume, head gasket thickness and piston dish/dome were the same. that is alot of assumptions i know but i only had bore and stroke, and compression ratios. i'll see if i can measure chamber volume and see if they're sloce to wat i calculated, i don't have the pistons though so i can't compare them. maybe i can ind some more accurate numbers. anyone out there with a helms manual should have most of the engine specs, i used alldata for the specs but all i could find was what i mentioned.

if somebody can post specs on deck clearance and chamber volume. piston, dish/dome volume would be helpful too.

 

Here's a little something that you should take a look at before you think of using a D15Z1 head for performance reasons.



This is an intake port on my D15Z1 that I will be swapping into my 1989 HB for a gas miser. What makes this picture a REAL eye opener is the fact that the person who had this motor before I got it tried to increase HP by using a D16Z6 intake manifold. You can VERY clearly see how much bigger the D16Z6 runners are than the D15Z1 runners. And hopefully, you can see from this picture that the D15Z1 head is not the stuff that dreams are made of when it comes to making power.

 

i know its not highest possible power material but i'm not lookin to build a 300hp beast i just want it to run, with hopefully a tad more power. if i wanted something blazingly fast i'd buy a motorcycle.


wat about gasket matching? i was planning on doing a bit of grinding to it even if i stick with the z6 head. in theory the combo would yield high mpg at cruising rpms and a boost of power in vtec.

it would be alot easier if i kept the z6 head, and i do have to get a whole new motor anyways. but the whole idea still intrigues me.

i might just put the head on in stock form while i save for headwork on the z6 head. just to get it moving. its so sad seeing my car just sitting there week after week.

do the z6 and the z1 have the same size valves? i'll see if i can find those numbers, if someone knows valve sizes they would be a big help. they seem close.

pics on the way.


Modified by itrhopeful at 12:45 AM 1/14/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itrhopeful &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know its not highest possible power material but i'm not lookin to build a 300hp beast i just want it to run, with hopefully a tad more power. if i wanted something blazingly fast i'd buy a motorcycle. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My point is that with a D15Z1 head, you are not even going to make the SAME power as you would with Y7 head. At least the Y7 head has the bigger ports. If you just want to make it run, et a stock head. It will probably be easier to find anyway.

 

the thing is i have a z1 head, somebody gave it to me, i was looking for a sohc vtec head and they had that, without realizing it wasn't a z6 head. i figured i'd make the best of it and use it if possible, which it is. practical? maybe not, but it will increase compression and should give a slight boost. even with smaller ports which could decrease volume, it should increase velocity of the flow which would be better at lower rpms. granted that is contrary to the whole point of vtec but it is wat it is, maybe it'll flatten out the tq/hp curve. besides i'm going to gasket match the im and the head (on both sides) and i'd considered using the z1 im with a z6 tb. like i said i'm still thinking it through.

 

I know you say that you are thinking about staying with the head because you have it and such but have you thought of possibly trying to find a Y5 head? It's a vtec-e head that has the same size valves/ports that a Y8 head does with roller rockers. You might get a little more life out of it with a crazy profiled cam that you couldn't normally get in a reg. head.

If anything you really don't have anything to lose. I say portmatch the z1 head and slap it on and if you have the resources tune it and see if you have any real gains. If it doesn't go as planned you can always pick up another head and go on about your business. Sounds like a fun project.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itrhopeful &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">besides i'm going to gasket match the im and the head (on both sides) and i'd considered using the z1 im with a z6 tb. like i said i'm still thinking it through. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Take a look at that intake port again. If you try to match it with a D16Z6 intake manifold, there just isn't much left. I would also figure that te same is true inside the head iself. If you try to enlarge those ports, you would very well end up in a water jacket.

 

Z1 head on Y7 block
11.44:1

Z1 Combustion chamber = 25.30 cc
Y7 Combustion chamber = 38.00 cc

easy way to find out... http://www.clubcivicquebec.com...f.php

the Z1 head is fundamentally different than the rest of honda's heads. (except the Y5 of course) The coolant jackets run closer to the cylinder head to help cool the higher cylinder temps due to the lean burn state that the engine runs while cruising (18:1+)
it's also designed from the start to increase mpg figures.
getting that head to produce good power (over a Y7 head) would be a lot of work and some serious tuning. (low flow head with high compression)


Modified by Relic1 at 11:11 AM 1/14/2008

 

alright, this is the kind of thing i was looking for, as far as discussion goes. and that club civic quebec compression calculator is stellar, esp compared to doing it on paper, with sketchy numbers. that calculator came up with 11.04:1 for z1/z6, which is consirderably higher than i came up with, since i made alot of assumptions, most of which have been proven wrong by the handy compression calculator. it's also higher than i want to deal with in terms of reliability, unless i mess with piston combinations, which would negate the "well i have it right here, i may as well" excuse

on top of that, if the water jackets are as close to the combustion chamber as you say, machining would be very limited indeed. i might see what i can do with it, but with that information, it's looking more and more like a mediocre-bad idea.

i'll try a little mild porting and see if i can avoid the water jackets, but if i do hit they it seems like it's no big deal i'll just scrap it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Take a look at that intake port again. If you try to match it with a D16Z6 intake manifold, there just isn't much left. I would also figure that te same is true inside the head iself. If you try to enlarge those ports, you would very well end up in a water jacket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i matched it up with the im gasket i got before the z6 died. it seemed a bit of a stretch but possible, i'd just make it match where they meet at the opening then blend it in as smooth as i could, it would also be my first porting job so even if it's just if i mess it up it'll be worth the practice. i might even grind into the head that's in the car now just to see how far i can go. soon i'll have alot of alone time at the shop and hopefully i can get things caught up before my schedule changes and some of that will be free time.