Ls-vtec, ITR, pistons, stock PR3 head, with Skunk2 Pro Series springs retainers

Motul 8100 5w30 oil

ITR cams





FULL SIZE
http://www.sebastienroy.net/pics/IMG_2279.JPG
http://www.sebastienroy.net/pics/IMG_2280.JPG
http://www.sebastienroy.net/pics/IMG_2281.JPG

some advices what cause the problems?

the valve ajsutment was and still perfect


Modified by Garrett at 1:10 AM 6/4/2008

 

looks like it may have eaten something(fine particles) in the past

 

Looks like minor starvation, particles in the oil in the head is not very likely, as it must pass through the filter first. Fine particles would most likely pit or gall the rocker pad and lobe, it just looks like lack of lubrication to me.

Might want to check your cam oil plates, oil can coke in there and cause crappy lubrication.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like minor starvation, particles in the oil in the head is not very likely, as it must pass through the filter first. Fine particles would most likely pit or gall the rocker pad and lobe, it just looks like lack of lubrication to me.

Might want to check your cam oil plates, oil can coke in there and cause crappy lubrication.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you didn't see how the cam is square

it's not just scratch

it grind of about 0.050"

 

Perhaps an issue with the LMAs, or the springs binding?

It's difficult to tell from your photos, but is the wear apparent on all the lobes, or only the VTEC lobes?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Padawan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Perhaps an issue with the LMAs, or the springs binding?

It's difficult to tell from your photos, but is the wear apparent on all the lobes, or only the VTEC lobes?</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2,

better pics of the lobes would be nice, something that would make the damage stick out easily.

 

only vtec lobes had wear

both intake and exhaust, but bigger wear on intake side, (bigger lift)

I will take other pictures tonight

 

What did you adjust your valves to? How much valve pressure do you have or did you just trow those spring and retainers in with checking it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHDZINE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What did you adjust your valves to? How much valve pressure do you have or did you just trow those spring and retainers in with checking it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes the ajustment is fine 0.008" on the exhaust 0.006" intake

I remove 2 springs on the exhaust and they look fine

 

I make some test tonight to check if its coil bind

when vteec is engage, there is almost no cmore clearance when I try to punch the valve

I reinstalled stock springs/retainers on the same 2 valves, and make the same test. No more clearance

I think the valve guides are too long

I will mesures then and compare on my other stock head

 

ooo coil bind... didnt think of that...

 

finally there is no zinc in the oil

a second issue arived on another engine I build with the same oil

 

try the brad penn break-in oil

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wed3k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">try the brad penn break-in oil</TD></TR></TABLE>

This brand is new to me...

Lucas Oil representative give it to me

 

If the valve guides were too long and the the bottom of the retainers were hitting, I would think youd see some damage to the valve stem seals. This happenned to me once.
Id say either those valvesprings are super stiff/too stiff or you need some better oil.
Thats some extreme pressure opening and closing those valves at 8K+ rpms.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If the valve guides were too long and the the bottom of the retainers were hitting, I would think youd see some damage to the valve stem seals. This happenned to me once.

It looks like to me like the oil couldnt protect your cam lobes from all the increased pressure associated with big lift,stiff spring, and more aggressive ramped cams.

Maybe the cam/spring setup should be re-evaluated?</TD></TR></TABLE>

after the last post, I check the guides, and valve seals, everythin was like new

 

Its hard to see in those pics, but are they really gouged up bad?
If it was coil bind, I think you would have alot more broken stuff

Are any particular cylinders worse than others? Or are they all equal?
Can you catch a fingernail in the cam lobe?

You could also just take them and mic them. Honestly from what I can tell, I dont see anything to be worried about. But then again, theyre not in front of me either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its hard to see in those pics, but are they really gouged up bad?

Are any particular cylinders worse than others? Or are they all equal?
Can you catch a fingernail in the cam lobe?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

the lobes are almost square

 

How are the rocker pads?
Can you mic the cams?
Were there any abnormal noises before you pulled the cams?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How are the rocker pads?
Can you mic the cams?
Were there any abnormal noises before you pulled the cams?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the pads are ok, noise were from 7k to redline on the dyno

 

truth be told!!!

Looks like someone didnt give a rats *** about the condition of the oil....Typical amongst ricers (im not saying you are but.....)
somethin was ( past tense) mobbing thought your oil like Oprah on a baked ham.

 

i had a set of OEM GSR cams wear on the vtec lobe only. bad LMA's.

replaced all LMA, cams and lifters. no issues since.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a set of OEM GSR cams wear on the vtec lobe only. bad LMA's.

replaced all LMA, cams and lifters. no issues since. </TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2008331

 

We have to use that additive on all new cams in jep and chrylser products. I always have used a bottles on any engine I build with new cams. It won't hurt anything if you don't need it, but it will screw something up if you don't use use it. We had a jeep come back after 120 miles with flat cam lobes because the tech forgot to put it in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Garrett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2008331</TD></TR></TABLE>

seen that thread long time ago. i don't think the change in oil additives recently affects Honda's that much. there are millions of Honda's on the road all ranging from stock to aggressive valve train components. if the oil additives had such a big impact on wear we would be seeing ALLOT more issues like this rather than a few isolated cases.

like i said.....i had bad/sticking LMA's on my exhaust side only and the wear on my camshaft was on the VTEC lobe of the exhaust cam only....once i replaced the LMA's, cams and lifters everything was fine......heck i even used the cheapest engine oil from walmart and the cams do not show the same wear like before.

lets face it.....all our old *** b16/b18 heads are starting to show their age. components wear out over time.....time to carefully inspect everything and replace as needed.

good luck.