Alright, after a dissapointing day at the dyno (see sig).

It is believed that I have bent valves (just stock GSR valves).

I am going to get this taken care of soon. But I was wondering if I should upgrade my vavles since the head will be off anyways (I would like to get my money's worth out of the labor of pulling the head)

What should I upgrade them with? Keep in mind, I have budget constraints. So I want to reward to be woth the price.

I was thinking about Type Rs, or Skunk 2s, or Skunk2 High Compression Valves.

And one have any imput on what to get (suggestions on other valves are appricated as well).

Oh, and buy the way... set up is:
Import Builders Re-built GSR
- Skunk2 Stage 2 Cams & Cam Gears
- Portflow Valve Springs & Retainers
- Wiseco 11.8:1 Compression Pistion
- Eagle Rods
- Re-sleeved by Golden Eagle to 84mm
- RC 440 Injectors
- Hondata Stage 2


Thanks for the help!!!!

[Modified by PSU-TEG, 4:09 PM 1/21/2003]


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 4:09 PM 1/21/2003]


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 4:10 PM 1/21/2003]


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 5:53 PM 1/21/2003]


[Modified by PSU-TEG, 8:09 PM 1/21/2003]

 

Upgrade both valves and valve guides.
http://www.portflow.com


[Modified by Spade, 1:24 PM 1/21/2003]

 

Thanks for the advice....

I'm guessing you are backing the valves on that webpage. Should I go with the Skunk2's. Or the other ones (being that Skunk2 isn't worth the extra money).

Anyone else have any input?


Thanks again!

 

wont you need to get the valves mated to the head? everything machined flush? that should be pretty expencive ($100-$200 dollars) unless you can get hook ups

 

No, you are right... It is going to expensive...

But since my I'm getting some serious leaking from the Leak Down Test (and I believe the valves are bent), and I need to get the head torn off and the several valves replaced anyway... I figured why not upgrade. So, I don't have to pay for most of this labor again if I ever do want to upgrade.

That is if a valve upgrade is going to be worth it. That's thre reason for this thread.

Would a valve upgrade be worth it? If so, what valves do you fell well give me the best results for a fair buck?

Thanks!

 

when you leak the motor down where do you hear the air escaping to? I mean does it sound like it's going into the header,intake manifold, crankcase?
I would make sure that you know exactly where it is coming from before you tear it down. it sounds to me that it's not your valves besides valves don't just bend so there has to be something else maybe piston to valve clearence wasn't set right when they assembled the motor and a pistons hit some valves but i think it would leak down higher than what you have. and there is no expensive machining involved with getting new valves unless the valve job hit you just lap the valves in with lapping compound most shops charge an hour labor for this so no more than 100 bucks .

 

well after looking at your set up, you got some strong parts there. don't half *** it. to be honest with you whatever valves you put in there its going to be expensive. machine work, valve guides and valves. To go the least expensive route, go ITR valves still use the bronze valve guides..machine work is unavoidable...find the cheapest place.here are a couple pics of my head with ferrea valves, bronze valve guides, Toda valvetrain and Portflow Titan. retainers and Portflow work. if you can go Ferrea..do so. no point in going oversized though, you'll get no power out of it.
check it.


there you go

 

Well, I took my car down to Steve Sakai at SGT Racing ("SGT" here on honda-tech) to get Hondata & Dyno tuned.

He thought it was bent valves. Comprssion test turned out good (about 250psi or so one each.... don't remember the exact numbers). The race team who's dyno Steve used was runing the same cam setup (Skunk2 Stage 2 with Skun2 Gears) and experianced the same probelm.... bent valves. And I do believe he said he could hear a little air coming out of of the head.

So.... I guess that is all I really have to go on. I'm going to take it down that and see if you can straighten out the problem. And if it IS bent valves... I am looking for some advice on what to do with the valves as I stated in my previous posts.

Thanks for the advice though!




[Modified by PSU-TEG, 10:53 PM 1/21/2003]

 

It really depends on your wallet, you could replace the stock valves with some refurbished used ones which would really cheap. as far as brands I only use 2 brands in every head I do which is Ferrea or REV so this is all I recommend. if you need help with this I don't know where in e.PA you are but I am not that far from philly. I don't work on cars, but i can look at the head once you get it off.

 

Usually with a NA setup you don't really need stainless valves. I would just get the type R intake valves and replace the bent exhaust valves with new gsr's and save your money. IMO


[Modified by turbohonda, 10:01 PM 1/21/2003]

 

turbohonda,

So you think I will be satisfied going your recommended route?

You don't feel that the more expensive valves (ie. Skunk2) are worth the price difference?

Do you think I should still replace the valve guides as someone else recommended?

Also, if I ever decide to turbo it, will I be wishing I did get the better valves? If I am debating on going FI some day, should I just got with the better valves?


Thanks for everyone's input!!

 

i just pulled the head off my d16a6...no compression in any cylinders...took the head off, used some rubbing alcohole and it all leaked out. so i bought a used head for 75 bucks, im replacing the valve seals now. the head gasket set was 100 bucks...so i might as well use all the gaskets. but i dont have the money to be upgrading the head, so i went the cheapest way i could. but i would have upgraded the valve and valve springs while i have it apart...but lack of money is stopping me. so if u got the money u might as well upgrade.

 

I think if you keep it all motor the stainless valves are overkill and a waste of money, that is assuming it is properly tuned. IMO
If you ever decide to put forced induction on it then the stainless valves (skunk 2 or ferrera) will be more reliable than the factory valves. I would have the valve guides checked to see if they are cracked because sometimes if you bend the valves bad enough they will mess up the guides to. What guides do you have in it now? Are they factory or brass? If they are factory I would stick with them over the brass ones?

 

Okay. The point in stainless steel valves is not better air flow.

It's less friction in the valve train. That also goes with the rec for Bronze guides.

More air flow is the port and polishes job. *Or oversized valves*. Which Honda's don't need....it's the porting that they need.

Get the most friction resistant valves and guides you can get your hands on.

That is my opinion and advise.

 

I have to disagree with you spade first off most honda valves from the factory are stainless they are just a different grade of stainless then some aftermarket stuff, and in some instances the aftermarket valve is a cheaper or is not as a good quility valve. It really depends on where they the company offering the product gets it from because there isn't many manufactures of valves and some are good at copying and others are good at making it better. I know that the Ferrea valves are made from a stainless called eva-8 I think it is, and the exhaust i think is called numonak 90 which is much stronger material than the stock valve
which does not aid in friction but aids in longevity and helps when extreme heat is added to the mixture such as in a turbo-nos application.
the idea behind an aftermarket valve is to better the flow into or out of the port eg:tuliped exhaust valves, which I think for the money yes you will get minimal return on your investment meaning you won't gain much in horsepower(honda valves are expensive) but if you have the means and want to do it right and want to increase the efficiency of the motor and or going with a high boost application
you cannot go wrong by putting an aftermarket valve in a head

 

Way off. Friction isnt an issue
Stainless takes heat better. As for bronze guides, nobody has been able to prove
them better than stock in my eyes so unless you got bad guides already, which
is a rarety, then you dont need to replace em.

 

disagree, the valve guides on Honda heads suck. they are very easily cracked when there is a valve failure. Bronze valve guides are used because they will exert less fristion on the valves and smoother operation thus making less heat.
the measurements are small but when building a serious head and engine these little things mean reliability.

 

never seen a honda guide break before without a valve bending or breaking first.

 

Not way off....just off.

Stainless are more heat resistant however, you also want a friction resistant coating on the metal and guides.

 

get the Endyn high compression valves with flat heads ... it'll bump compr a bit ... cheap too, as a matter of fact cheaper than new honda valves at the dealer.

don't go OS and don;t bother with s/s unless they are lighter than stock ...

Greg