i'm in my mid thirties, been around cars all my life, son i know very damn well how a thermostat works and its purpose and function. thanks for "your" opinion though.

 

You may know how they work but you clearly don't know why they're used.
Also note that performance applications are always different from DD but things like thermostats aren't far off from their stock standpoints.
Stop reviving ancient threads.


EDIT: Age doesn't mean a damn thing.

 

it does when you're quite experienced in said field, the car's i refer to are not a DD, i have experience with it, and bottom line is, it's effective, it works for me and everyone else that deletes them on high hp applications the CORRECT way, i ran a now retired low 9 / high 8 sec b18c for 8 yrs without a single coolant related issue, EVER! furthermore, please do not tell me what threads to reply to, revive or resurrect. regardless, i dont see YOU doing anything about it if do

 

 

^^^ less is more bro lol

 

Wow, big time facepalm. I can't believe people are still talking about this. And the whole "water moving to fast will not exchange heat" is not true. Moral of the story, leave the t-stat in and if there is a problem, fix it the right way.

 

Right,well Im 37 and my "opinion" is based on over 17 years as a Master Automotive technician. It is also based on pure facts. You have no clue what you are talking about....
It is true. It is physics,it is a fact.

 

It is true? On every application? You say it's physics but offer no specifics which means you are either lazy or you don't really know. Guys here are taking their thermostats out and running cooler. What's your "physics" explanation for this as the high flow rate is suppose to not transfer heat adequately correct?

 

I really do know. However I have no intention of holding the hand of an individual incapable of doing any type of research. Suffice it to say that the coolant gauge reading is not a measure of convection. So unlesss you have another basis for the claims of those engines running cooler, we're done here. Youre wrong. Period.

 

Yeah, actually I don't understand that either. When an OEM thermostat fails open, the car always runs cooler. This kinda dispels the "car will run hotter because the coolant won't transfer heat properly" theory.

 

they usually run water, not because it cools better, but because most tracks don't want antifreeze near their racing surface, ever try to clean that mess up? water evaporates, antifreeze makes a huge mess. I cant believe the amount of fail in this thread, the engine has to reach a minimum temp for the computer to go into closed loop, plus the thermostat is a restriction that needs to b there, don't take it out, especially on a modern car, it doesnt set the highest temp your engine will run, but the minimum temp it will run at, the highest temp is set by the efficiency of the cooling system, and it's condition. The take out the thermostat myth has been around since before I was, and it never seems to go away, every generation gets the same myth

 

i ran without a thermostat and my car actually ran warmer... too warm, gas mileage sucked and fans never turned off. run with a thermostat aluminum is bad to get hot it warps and causes more problems than a 5 dollar thermostat.

 

once the car warms up, in most cases the thermostat is wide open anyway and provides the restriction needed by the cooling system, so why even bother to take it out?

 

correct, its a tried proven fact, at least for me and those who chose to delete it on high HP engine builds, you may be a ASE certified tech working on ordinary conventional cars, but shop owners and tech savvy engine builders for years can attest that it does indeed run cooler, specifically on turbo motors. wrong or not, searching is out of the question as this is an aspect that i have plenty of experience with. i know what i speak of, the water pump pumps water with the thermostat closed. When the theormostat is closed it closes off the engine from the radiator, and heats up the water. Once the water reachs 190 (?) the thermostat opens and allows flow to the radiator to cool down the coolant. Once the cooant is cool enough the theormostate closes again.

When the theormostat is closed the engine moves coolant through your heatercore, turbo, engine block and head. If you look at the water pump there usually is 2 inlets and 1 outlet. with the water passages in the block and head it is possible to have the water pump move water throughout the system with the thermostat colsed.

I'm unsure of the direction of the water but it usually starts at the bottom and works it way up. So I would have to guess, the order is:

Engine > heatercore > Turbo (if applicable, although my turbo is oil cooled only )> water pump

After the thermostat opens that allows flow through the head and upper rad hose into the radiator then that returns to the water pump via lower rad. the only downfall to me, is no heat as i removed the heater core and all pertaining lines.

check out several quick related topics i pulled up

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...-no-thermostat
http://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-d...at-delete.html
http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/thermostat-delete-169565/

 

water doesn't go through the heater core unless you have heat on and the water valve is open, normally it bypasses through the manifold, the thermostat pretty much stays open once it opens, it may close slightly, but unless you are in Minnesota in the middle of winter, it wont close much. As far as race cars, if you have a car running at the track at full power, you are talking about a completely different situation then a street car, that needs it's thermostat to operate normally, why is it idjets on this board always try to compare a car operating under track conditions, to a street car?

 

thats a given, what i tried to say is that not having heat is the only "con" to me

 

Ignorance at its finest. I have done my research as well as real world testing. I know it's hard to, but relaxing the ego and learning something will only benefit yourself.

How do you know the engine actually runs hotter. Did you fix rtd's to it with various types of cooling system configurations on a test rig, dyno or vehicle? Measured cylinder temps maybe?

The reason removing the stat can sometimes cause the engine to run warmer has to do with pressure loss within the engine, not velocity. The myth just won't die. But don't take my word for it. I will post a few links that may get the wheels turning just a tad.

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/tec...ech_Tips_3.htm

 

Incorrect.
Like I said, you do not understand how a thermostat works. You are simply regurgitating what you find on the interwebs, which is usually wrong. The thermostat never fully closes once it is opened. It also never completely opens unless the engine starts to overheat. It does not completely open when the engine is at operating temperature. It is also very dynamic, it is constantly opening and closing to varying degrees once the engine is running. Even when fully opened, it still limits the amount of coolant flow. It must, this is important. You need to understand how convection works,these engines are not air cooled and rely on proper coolant circulation. Your temp gauge is not a reliable indicator when the engine is no longer temperature regulated.....

 

I learn daily. And have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I am not ego driven, rather information driven, and I strive for accuracy, as I take my profession seriously.
Done so myself,no. But others have, and published their results.

Let me save you and anyone else reading this some time. If you want to know ANYTHING automotive related, get the information from the horses mouth. From the engineers who have actually studied, designed, and built the items in question. They do a myriad of tests and experiments on said items and publish the results. Whats more, the info is available to the public. Im a true automotive professional, and my information is validated:

http://papers.sae.org/961823/ This paper will discuss how the thermostat really works.


http://papers.sae.org/2001-01-1741/ This paper shows the negative effects of removing a thermostat, including what I have mentioned earlier.

Now these are the only 2 papers I own on the subject, and I purchased them about 6 years ago. I'll admit that there may be more recent developments, but I'll let you find them. If the information is not a published SAE paper, I have no interest in it.

 

I applaud your use of sae papers to provide adequate technical detail, but you seem to have wandered off course. I originally stated in this thread to run a thermostat and properly repair any cooling system troubles. I was never endorsing not using one or having trouble understanding how they worked. It was the old myth "too much flow will not exchange heat in the engine" that you said was true and I was wrong about.

Also, one of the links I provided come from an sae paper author and heat exchanger patent holder, and the National automotive radiator Service association which is an organization dedicated to automotive, heavy duty, commercial and industrial heat transfer. The other is from a company specializing in performance cooling system research and development for several decades. If those are not credible sources then I don't know what are.

 

The reason I prefer SAE papers, is because the information is validated. The papers are submitted and scrutinized by peer members. If there are no papers on the subject, then Im all for other sources of what would appear to be credible info.

As for me explaining how a tstat works and its importance, that was for user Raybans. I was multiqutoing in my responses....

 

I agree 100%

Although I am not a member I randomly purchase papers I am interested in. White papers or technical articles found online sometimes have great info but are not are subject to the same review and can often contain marketing nonsense.

Delphi has loads of published sae papers on their site for free.

 

listen man, whether or not your opinion is that you believe i may not know how a t-stat works is of zero importance to me, bottom line is i know it's purpose and i know it's function. i do admit my theory does not apply to DD vehicles, although it can as different car's have varying cooling systems

 

while on this subject, since the temp gauge isnt really worth a crap, and what many people dont know, is if you get a major leak and your temp sender becomes uncovered, it wont show your car overheating, since it relies on coolant to show the actual temp, pegasus racing and other places sell a coolant pressure switch, add a nice clean LED to your cluster near the temp gauge, and if you have a coolant loss, you have an instant warning, even if the gauge shows nothing, cheap insurance

 

Not having a thermostat will take the car take longer to warm up, burning more gas until the engine hits operating temperature.

In some cases, removing the thermostat makes the coolant circulate too fast. In this case, the engine may not truly overheat, but some spots may not get cooled enough and have problems.