all motor
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 5
From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (nsxjr6)
My friend's has an Integra that i personally don't really like because i hate body kits.... It's got an Accord headlight conversion etc...
Here's a pic of it...
Anyways it's got a pretty basic setup.. CRVTEC bored .50mm over on stock sleeves, JE 12.5:1 slugs, stock rods, Portflow head, SK2 Stage 2 cams, RC 310cc injectors, SK2 intake manifold, sprockets, and Hondata... His best is a 12.93@107... As you can see it really doesn't take that much to get it into 12's all motor... My other friend has the same setup in his EK but instead of the SK2 cams he's just got a CTR intake cam and he's running an ITR ECU and VAFC... His best full interior also is a 12.62@107.. I've got a video of David's integra so i'll put it up when i go back to school on Sunday.. Latez
[Modified by JDMspecEG6, 6:55 PM 11/28/2002]
Here's a pic of it...
Anyways it's got a pretty basic setup.. CRVTEC bored .50mm over on stock sleeves, JE 12.5:1 slugs, stock rods, Portflow head, SK2 Stage 2 cams, RC 310cc injectors, SK2 intake manifold, sprockets, and Hondata... His best is a 12.93@107... As you can see it really doesn't take that much to get it into 12's all motor... My other friend has the same setup in his EK but instead of the SK2 cams he's just got a CTR intake cam and he's running an ITR ECU and VAFC... His best full interior also is a 12.62@107.. I've got a video of David's integra so i'll put it up when i go back to school on Sunday.. Latez
[Modified by JDMspecEG6, 6:55 PM 11/28/2002]
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
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From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (JDMspecEG6)
I would just build your ITR motor.... Sleeve it up to 85mm with high compression pistons... I'm doing 13.0:1.... Basically the same head except for JUN 3 cams and valvetrain instead... Peace
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 555
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From: va
Re: all motor (10K2HVN)
yeah 13:1 is pretty high compression...what kinda hp do you get with your setup? anyways...build your ITR motor...cr-vtec an ls-vtec are costly setups, and, if not done correctly, wont be as powerful as you may hope...
[Modified by GRCuadros, 4:35 AM 11/29/2002]
[Modified by GRCuadros, 4:35 AM 11/29/2002]
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: sussex, WI, USA
Re: all motor (10K2HVN)
13:1!!! 
!!! im guessing this is not your street car..?!?
!!! im guessing this is not your street car..?!?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 5
From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (DC_nitro_monster)
Yes this is a street motor... It's right on the verge of having to mix with race gas... I don't want to have to do this and i'm not planning on it.. As DC_nitro_monster said with the proper tuning i should be fine... My friend's Integra ^ runs 12.5 with no detonation on 92... He just richens his mixture up on the street and backs the timing down to 12 degrees.... Latez
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
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From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (GRCuadros)
what kinda hp do you get with your setup?
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 555
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From: va
Re: all motor (JDMspecEG6)
"I would hope for a little higher hp numbers maybe low 230's "
thats pretty quick, with the right tuning you could probably get to 230, well good luck with your setup, what kinda cars have you raced/smote, i bet alot if not all of the slow *** tegs an stangs in your area! oh yeah, what kinda engine do you have in your car, ITR?
P.S. how do you quote someone, i had to copy an paste
[Modified by GRCuadros, 6:30 PM 12/4/2002]
[Modified by GRCuadros, 6:32 PM 12/4/2002]
thats pretty quick, with the right tuning you could probably get to 230, well good luck with your setup, what kinda cars have you raced/smote, i bet alot if not all of the slow *** tegs an stangs in your area! oh yeah, what kinda engine do you have in your car, ITR?
P.S. how do you quote someone, i had to copy an paste
[Modified by GRCuadros, 6:30 PM 12/4/2002]
[Modified by GRCuadros, 6:32 PM 12/4/2002]
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 5
From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (GRCuadros)
Yea we'll see.. The motors still not totally done yet so i dunno.... If you wanna see the vid of a few of my friend's Ground Zero cars here they are.... I just put it together really quick and the quality is hella shitty... Sorry... http://engr.oregonstate.edu/~uyemuraa/ Then right click and save target as on Honda-Tech Video.mpeg... Latez
[Modified by JDMspecEG6, 3:33 PM 12/4/2002]
[Modified by JDMspecEG6, 3:33 PM 12/4/2002]
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,770
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From: Denver, Colorado
Re: all motor (JDMspecEG6)
Here's so good-to-know kinda stuff:
B20B/Z's have started showing signs of cracking the aluminum section of the sleeves when Compression ratio's higher than 11:1ish are used.
I had a 13:1 motor in my integra last fall --> spring. It was an LS/VTEC .25mm overbore Civic Type R (PCT) pistons. The longer stroke yields a 12.98:1 CR w/ a GS-R head. It had JUN 2 cams w/ valvetrain. I ran a 14.21 up here all motor, but our track is at 5820ft, so it looks a lot worse than it really is. It was a 13.1 second car at sea level according to the NHRA altitude conversion factor (multiply time by .9269). But this was with the GS-R manifold, and only the JUN 2 cams, stock throttle body, etc....
forged Aluminum rods would be a real good idea, much lighter than the stock steel rods, and forged pistons with at least a 12.5:1 CR would be a good idea.
A mild, yet not excessive head port would be good, whether to use stock or oversized valves is always a debate.
Some people stand behind the individual throttle body set-ups like TWM offers, others, like Erik Agular, use a single large Tbody ~90mm. This is really up to you. You want a header with really long primaries, its easy to buy a JDM ITR header, and extend the primaries to ~4-5". It's a good idea to make very fluid bends in the header, the less resistance the walls of the pipe provide, the lower pressure will be that builds behind the exhaust pulse. This allows a vacuum to build behind the exiting exhaust gas... if you have this condition, and have overlap in the cams, then that vacuum will help in sucking the intake charge into the chamber.
Another thing up for debate with our honda blocks is the oil sprayers which coat the bottom of the pistons with oil. Some argue that the weight of the oil coating the pistons acts as a parasite to the engine, where others insist that the oil allows necessary cooling of the piston to prevent hot spots and detonation. Opinions?
A good majority of the all-motor drag cars utilize DOHC VTEC blocks. Whether they plug these oil squirters or not is undecided. I'd imagine that they would all be sleeved to a larger bore, possibly to around 84-86mm. I think it would be easy to get a B16A block, sleeve it to a larger bore, then stroke it with either a stroker kit, or a B17A crank. This would allow for higher revs, and of course you're going to make more power up there.
There's always running a 1-2" deck plate as well.
As far as cams are concerned, I'd want to run a cam w/ 12mm lift for sure on both sides, then somewhere in the neighborhood of 280-300 degrees duration on the intake side. 270-285 on the exhaust. Another concern with valvetrain is the weight of the VTEC system. Crane Cams and TODA Racing have roller valvetrain set-ups which eliminate the VTEC system, which is useless for drag racing.
You'll want a B16A/B16B/B18C/B18C5/B18C6 Tranny for the all motor set-up. LSD is important as always, as is a good clutch and a light flywheel.
A lot of the drag cars are also using a solid rear axle set-up which allows for more traction durring launching. 20-22" slicks are about as big as you want to go.
B20B/Z's have started showing signs of cracking the aluminum section of the sleeves when Compression ratio's higher than 11:1ish are used.
I had a 13:1 motor in my integra last fall --> spring. It was an LS/VTEC .25mm overbore Civic Type R (PCT) pistons. The longer stroke yields a 12.98:1 CR w/ a GS-R head. It had JUN 2 cams w/ valvetrain. I ran a 14.21 up here all motor, but our track is at 5820ft, so it looks a lot worse than it really is. It was a 13.1 second car at sea level according to the NHRA altitude conversion factor (multiply time by .9269). But this was with the GS-R manifold, and only the JUN 2 cams, stock throttle body, etc....
forged Aluminum rods would be a real good idea, much lighter than the stock steel rods, and forged pistons with at least a 12.5:1 CR would be a good idea.
A mild, yet not excessive head port would be good, whether to use stock or oversized valves is always a debate.
Some people stand behind the individual throttle body set-ups like TWM offers, others, like Erik Agular, use a single large Tbody ~90mm. This is really up to you. You want a header with really long primaries, its easy to buy a JDM ITR header, and extend the primaries to ~4-5". It's a good idea to make very fluid bends in the header, the less resistance the walls of the pipe provide, the lower pressure will be that builds behind the exhaust pulse. This allows a vacuum to build behind the exiting exhaust gas... if you have this condition, and have overlap in the cams, then that vacuum will help in sucking the intake charge into the chamber.
Another thing up for debate with our honda blocks is the oil sprayers which coat the bottom of the pistons with oil. Some argue that the weight of the oil coating the pistons acts as a parasite to the engine, where others insist that the oil allows necessary cooling of the piston to prevent hot spots and detonation. Opinions?
A good majority of the all-motor drag cars utilize DOHC VTEC blocks. Whether they plug these oil squirters or not is undecided. I'd imagine that they would all be sleeved to a larger bore, possibly to around 84-86mm. I think it would be easy to get a B16A block, sleeve it to a larger bore, then stroke it with either a stroker kit, or a B17A crank. This would allow for higher revs, and of course you're going to make more power up there.
There's always running a 1-2" deck plate as well.
As far as cams are concerned, I'd want to run a cam w/ 12mm lift for sure on both sides, then somewhere in the neighborhood of 280-300 degrees duration on the intake side. 270-285 on the exhaust. Another concern with valvetrain is the weight of the VTEC system. Crane Cams and TODA Racing have roller valvetrain set-ups which eliminate the VTEC system, which is useless for drag racing.
You'll want a B16A/B16B/B18C/B18C5/B18C6 Tranny for the all motor set-up. LSD is important as always, as is a good clutch and a light flywheel.
A lot of the drag cars are also using a solid rear axle set-up which allows for more traction durring launching. 20-22" slicks are about as big as you want to go.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,510
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Re: all motor (JDMspecEG6)
damn thats some sick compression, but i know your smart and know what your doing... one thing a guy did on the crxpower.net forum with his 600hp vr4 was build a propane injection kit, he has many graphs to support his product.. i'll post the link up later when i find it, it may be somthing to look into
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
From: Caracas, Venezuela
Re: all motor (Midori Shinkansen)
Here's so good-to-know kinda stuff:
B20B/Z's have started showing signs of cracking the aluminum section of the sleeves when Compression ratio's higher than 11:1ish are used.
I had a 13:1 motor in my integra last fall --> spring. It was an LS/VTEC .25mm overbore Civic Type R (PCT) pistons. The longer stroke yields a 12.98:1 CR w/ a GS-R head. It had JUN 2 cams w/ valvetrain. I ran a 14.21 up here all motor, but our track is at 5820ft, so it looks a lot worse than it really is. It was a 13.1 second car at sea level according to the NHRA altitude conversion factor (multiply time by .9269). But this was with the GS-R manifold, and only the JUN 2 cams, stock throttle body, etc....
forged Aluminum rods would be a real good idea, much lighter than the stock steel rods, and forged pistons with at least a 12.5:1 CR would be a good idea.
A mild, yet not excessive head port would be good, whether to use stock or oversized valves is always a debate.
Some people stand behind the individual throttle body set-ups like TWM offers, others, like Erik Agular, use a single large Tbody ~90mm. This is really up to you. You want a header with really long primaries, its easy to buy a JDM ITR header, and extend the primaries to ~4-5". It's a good idea to make very fluid bends in the header, the less resistance the walls of the pipe provide, the lower pressure will be that builds behind the exhaust pulse. This allows a vacuum to build behind the exiting exhaust gas... if you have this condition, and have overlap in the cams, then that vacuum will help in sucking the intake charge into the chamber.
Another thing up for debate with our honda blocks is the oil sprayers which coat the bottom of the pistons with oil. Some argue that the weight of the oil coating the pistons acts as a parasite to the engine, where others insist that the oil allows necessary cooling of the piston to prevent hot spots and detonation. Opinions?
A good majority of the all-motor drag cars utilize DOHC VTEC blocks. Whether they plug these oil squirters or not is undecided. I'd imagine that they would all be sleeved to a larger bore, possibly to around 84-86mm. I think it would be easy to get a B16A block, sleeve it to a larger bore, then stroke it with either a stroker kit, or a B17A crank. This would allow for higher revs, and of course you're going to make more power up there.
There's always running a 1-2" deck plate as well.
As far as cams are concerned, I'd want to run a cam w/ 12mm lift for sure on both sides, then somewhere in the neighborhood of 280-300 degrees duration on the intake side. 270-285 on the exhaust. Another concern with valvetrain is the weight of the VTEC system. Crane Cams and TODA Racing have roller valvetrain set-ups which eliminate the VTEC system, which is useless for drag racing.
You'll want a B16A/B16B/B18C/B18C5/B18C6 Tranny for the all motor set-up. LSD is important as always, as is a good clutch and a light flywheel.
A lot of the drag cars are also using a solid rear axle set-up which allows for more traction durring launching. 20-22" slicks are about as big as you want to go.
B20B/Z's have started showing signs of cracking the aluminum section of the sleeves when Compression ratio's higher than 11:1ish are used.
I had a 13:1 motor in my integra last fall --> spring. It was an LS/VTEC .25mm overbore Civic Type R (PCT) pistons. The longer stroke yields a 12.98:1 CR w/ a GS-R head. It had JUN 2 cams w/ valvetrain. I ran a 14.21 up here all motor, but our track is at 5820ft, so it looks a lot worse than it really is. It was a 13.1 second car at sea level according to the NHRA altitude conversion factor (multiply time by .9269). But this was with the GS-R manifold, and only the JUN 2 cams, stock throttle body, etc....
forged Aluminum rods would be a real good idea, much lighter than the stock steel rods, and forged pistons with at least a 12.5:1 CR would be a good idea.
A mild, yet not excessive head port would be good, whether to use stock or oversized valves is always a debate.
Some people stand behind the individual throttle body set-ups like TWM offers, others, like Erik Agular, use a single large Tbody ~90mm. This is really up to you. You want a header with really long primaries, its easy to buy a JDM ITR header, and extend the primaries to ~4-5". It's a good idea to make very fluid bends in the header, the less resistance the walls of the pipe provide, the lower pressure will be that builds behind the exhaust pulse. This allows a vacuum to build behind the exiting exhaust gas... if you have this condition, and have overlap in the cams, then that vacuum will help in sucking the intake charge into the chamber.
Another thing up for debate with our honda blocks is the oil sprayers which coat the bottom of the pistons with oil. Some argue that the weight of the oil coating the pistons acts as a parasite to the engine, where others insist that the oil allows necessary cooling of the piston to prevent hot spots and detonation. Opinions?
A good majority of the all-motor drag cars utilize DOHC VTEC blocks. Whether they plug these oil squirters or not is undecided. I'd imagine that they would all be sleeved to a larger bore, possibly to around 84-86mm. I think it would be easy to get a B16A block, sleeve it to a larger bore, then stroke it with either a stroker kit, or a B17A crank. This would allow for higher revs, and of course you're going to make more power up there.
There's always running a 1-2" deck plate as well.
As far as cams are concerned, I'd want to run a cam w/ 12mm lift for sure on both sides, then somewhere in the neighborhood of 280-300 degrees duration on the intake side. 270-285 on the exhaust. Another concern with valvetrain is the weight of the VTEC system. Crane Cams and TODA Racing have roller valvetrain set-ups which eliminate the VTEC system, which is useless for drag racing.
You'll want a B16A/B16B/B18C/B18C5/B18C6 Tranny for the all motor set-up. LSD is important as always, as is a good clutch and a light flywheel.
A lot of the drag cars are also using a solid rear axle set-up which allows for more traction durring launching. 20-22" slicks are about as big as you want to go.
to you, keep up the good work 
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 5
From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (Midori Shinkansen)
I had a 13:1 motor in my integra last fall --> spring. It was an LS/VTEC .25mm overbore Civic Type R (PCT) pistons. The longer stroke yields a 12.98:1 CR w/ a GS-R head.
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From: Boise, ID
Re: all motor (ian)
OK I get everything so far, but what about cranks? Can you put a B16 crank in a B18C and get 1.7 rsr? I think the stroke is all wrong and what not, but still I thought I should ask. There isn't really much to say about knife edging, I know, but how about micro polishing and balancing. I am going to send my block off very soon to get this done. Is there a crank that is better for all motor?
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (advanracing62)
I really wouldn't do that.... All you are goin to be making is a CTR motor.... high R/S... It's actually like a 1.84 or so if i'm not mistaken.... I really would just stick with the GSR crank.... Your R/S will be fine unless you're tryin to make a motor that will rev to 14,000rpm... hehe Latez
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,418
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From: Gresham, Oregon, USA
Re: all motor (KS-R)
Well you can do what you want.... If I swapped any crank which i wouldn't do i would maybe go down to the B17's crank.... You are goin to be losing displacement... The CTR R/S is over the optimal 1.75 so why not just go with a B16A block.... I personally hate that motor but then again that's just me... A B16 bored to 85mm is about a 1750cc... A B17 will add another 100cc's to that... I will just stick with my B18C block w/B18C crank bored to 85mm for a 1980cc motor... Just my opinion...
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sonicSVT
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