Is this about right for my setup? <FONT SIZE="4">BTW this is 168 at the hub not flywheel.</FONT>


My setup:
Civic Type R ECU
AEM cold air intake
JDM ITR 4-1 header
Carsound high flow cat
RS-R EXMAG catback exhaust
Exedy racing clutch
Exedy light weight flywheel
Pivot Earthing (Grounding) kit
B&M fuel presure regulator
NGK spark plugs
NGK spark plug wires
Skunk2 Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
Skunk2 Stage 1 cams
St. Corsa Cam Gears

Modified by Gump at 8:08 PM 9/13/2004


Modified by Gump at 12:24 PM 9/14/2004

 

hmm... I would think that it would at least break 170, but that's just my guess! bump for you

 

thats flywheel power!? i would expected more...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TERRANCe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats flywheel power!? i would expected more...</TD></TR></TABLE>This guy's (vtecmike1) setup is like mine with the exception of some headwork done, He made 179 at 8787 rpm, while I made 168 at 8318, that's an 11.2hp difference.


His setup:
j's racing cf intake ( itr version)
jdm dc 4-1 (2.5 inch collector)
2.5 inch carsound cat.
greddy evo.
skunk2 stage 1 cams (itr valve train installed)
skunk2 cam gears
skunk2 intake manifold
hondata intake manifold gasket
b&m fpr
vafc
chipped p28/ 9000rpm
spoon head gasket
exedy organic clutch/ pressure plate
exedy 9.8 pound chromolly flywheel
competetion port and polish head work, with intake manifold and TB port match from alaniz, head milled to 11:1 compression with the spoon gasket.
stock bottom end.

 

its the J's racing IntaKe Yo

 

how much you guys usually pay for a tuning session at Churches?

 

I would have expected more.

My gsr with SRI,JG header 2.5'',2.5exhaust, itr cams, skunk2 im, hondata did 185/130 at church.

 

It's only a b16 , I was aiming for 170 peak hp out of my setup, which I almost reached, so I'm pretty happy with the result. I like the mid range and torque that I got. Everyone has to remember peak hp isn't everything.

 

i nailed 161 with my b16. B16 intake manifold ITR cams. I/H/E. VAFC and mugen p28 running horribly rich.

 

Did you do any tuning? I personally don't think it's bad, especially for a B16. If I'm reading your graph right, it does look like your torque takes a dump right before VTEC though. If you didn't do any tuning, then there still got be some untapped power and powerband smoothening. You're right about HP not being everything, I'd rather have a fatty powerband and 5 less HP than some spike near redline and nothing until then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alfaaay &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you do any tuning? I personally don't think it's bad, especially for a B16. If I'm reading your graph right, it does look like your torque takes a dump right before VTEC though. If you didn't do any tuning, then there still got be some untapped power and powerband smoothening. You're right about HP not being everything, I'd rather have a fatty powerband and 5 less HP than some spike near redline and nothing until then.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah tuning was done, the blue line is after tuning. Shawn said that he could have gotten more, but the fuel pump was about to max out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TERRANCe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats flywheel power!? i would expected more...</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. That's power measured at the hubs. A Dynapack tends to read HP high and torque low compared to the more popular Dynojet. But it is VERY consistent from run to run. But let me give you something better to compare this with. I dynoed my B16A on a Dynapack about two years ago. It was a 1994 USDM B16A running with a USDM P30 ECU. The only mods were an AEM CAi and Greddy MX Catback exhaust. NO HEADER. That setup produced 153HP, 100ft-lb torque. So 168WHP with mild cams, a DC 4-1 header (and it's hard to get much out of a header on a B16A!), and a few other mods is not out of line.

 

I would wager that your vtec engagement is too late. Try bumping the vtec up couple hundred rpm. You have too much of a "kick" for that vtec engagement to be optimized for maximum power in that rpm range.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would wager that your vtec engagement is too late. Try bumping the vtec up couple hundred rpm. You have too much of a "kick" for that vtec engagement to be optimized for maximum power in that rpm range.</TD></TR></TABLE>Vtec was first set at 5600, and that caused a massive drop when it engaged (red graph), so Shawn bumped it up 5800, and the drop went away.

 

What do you have for tuning the car? VAFC? Chips?, AFPR? Hondata? etc?

Something fishy is going on in that vtec engagement area. You should be able to smooth out the transition and pickup some power. You have a 10+ ft-lb jump right after vtec engagment, somethings just not right. Do you have an A/F map with the torque and power graphs?

My recommendation is make a pass with vtec high (ie 7000) and a pass with vtec low (ie 4500) and make sure fuel maps on and off vtec look good. Then overlay both passes and your vtec should be the point were power curves intersect.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gump &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vtec was first set at 5600, and that caused a massive drop when it engaged (red graph), so Shawn bumped it up 5800, and the drop went away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what happened with me as well. With the street tuning done on my car, VTEC would sputter upon engagement at any RPM lower than 5900, so that's where we set it. As long as you don't fall out of VTEC, you shouldn't be in too bad of shape.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do you have for tuning the car? VAFC? Chips?, AFPR? Hondata? etc?

Something fishy is going on in that vtec engagement area. You should be able to smooth out the transition and pickup some power. You have a 10+ ft-lb jump right after vtec engagment, somethings just not right. Do you have an A/F map with the torque and power graphs?

My recommendation is make a pass with vtec high (ie 7000) and a pass with vtec low (ie 4500) and make sure fuel maps on and off vtec look good. Then overlay both passes and your vtec should be the point were power curves intersect.</TD></TR></TABLE>VAFC, FPR, and cam gears

 

I got my car tuned at shawns today. Picked up 20 ft/lb of torque in the mid range and some hp too!

Shawn knows what he's doing... ill post up my graph tomorrow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gump &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">VAFC, FPR, and cam gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea, ok. I was wondering how you were messing with vtec crossover too because you forgot the VAFC in your first post with your mods.

But when you were comparing your motor to the guy with the same stuff with the exception of headwork, you do realize that good headwork will gain you a lot more than most other mods. So the 11 hp difference due to headwork is not unheard of by any means.

I think you are about where you should be

 

Is the VAFC the first generation or second?

I have seen this from time to time, with people and tuners who do not fully understand what is going on with the VAFC. Even though the VAFC alters the Vtec engagement, the ECU still thinks the vtec is at the original setting. What happens if the stock vtec is 6k and you use your VAFC to dial in 5600, then the ECU is still running the off-vtec maps from 5600-6000. The second gen VAFC has a map to tune this "dead" section, where the ECU is off-vtec, but the motor and VAFC maps are on-vtec.

Oh, and I think your car is running strong, but I am convinced that if I were tuning it, I could pick up some power and smooth out that vtec transition.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BryanPendleton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is the VAFC the first generation or second?

I have seen this from time to time, with people and tuners who do not fully understand what is going on with the VAFC. Even though the VAFC alters the Vtec engagement, the ECU still thinks the vtec is at the original setting. What happens if the stock vtec is 6k and you use your VAFC to dial in 5600, then the ECU is still running the off-vtec maps from 5600-6000. The second gen VAFC has a map to tune this "dead" section, where the ECU is off-vtec, but the motor and VAFC maps are on-vtec.

Oh, and I think your car is running strong, but I am convinced that if I were tuning it, I could pick up some power and smooth out that vtec transition.

</TD></TR></TABLE>It's the first gen. How do I fix this problem with the vtec engagement?

 

You cant really.

 

I have a similar setup

B16:

Skunk stage 1 cams
SKunk Intake manifold
AEM cold air
ITR flywheel
APEXi VAFC
Chipped P28 (feels)
DC 4-1 Header

Cams are not Dialed in and air/fuel has been corrected. I made 164 to the wheels.

These seem like good numbers and sound about right. Good job.

Are you cams completely dialed in?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Civichatch2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a similar setup

B16:

Skunk stage 1 cams
SKunk Intake manifold
AEM cold air
ITR flywheel
APEXi VAFC
Chipped P28 (feels)
DC 4-1 Header

Cams are not Dialed in and air/fuel has been corrected. I made 164 to the wheels.

These seem like good numbers and sound about right. Good job.

Are you cams completely dialed in?</TD></TR></TABLE>yeah they're dailed in, intake is +2 exhaust is +3

 

Cool then man! I am glad to see that you are making good power. I have my vtec set at 5500 with no problems.

I can not wait until I can completely tune my car to see what it does.

Also I am with you on having a better power ban then peak horsepower!