I have been running the Cobalt Friction Spec-VR's, but after reading some good reviews of the carbotech XP9's I bought a set to try out. I also stuck some xp-8's in the rear for the weekend.

Some stats:
Stock OEM single piston brake caliper
2820lbs with me in car
New Rotors, XP9's (front), XP8's rear.

good:
The XP8's did great in the rear, and I think I'm going to stick with them from now on. The XP9's have every bit as much stopping power as the Spec-VR's and cost less.

Bad:
I totally destroyed the xp9 in 1.5 days! Note, I get about 6 track days on the Spec-VR's. I had to put some old Spec-VR's back on to finish off the 2nd day. The xp9's also had some slight bending of the back plate. Never had the Spec-VR's do this to me. They also dug rather deep grooves in the new rotors in just 1 day. The Spec-VR's also groove the rotors some but not that this much.

Even thought the XP9's are cheaper they are not cheaper in the long run for me because they just don't last long enough on my fat *** car. I'm going to stick the the Spec-VRs. Just thought I would share my findings.



Modified by 577HondaPrelude at 7:42 PM 9/6/2004

 

I have had the same results with my CRX. I had a set of XP8s that lasted a weekend at summit main and a weekend at VIR full. I did not feel they would last another weekend after that. Maybe a single day, but not a weekend.

Next, I try a set of XP9s...even worse. I do a single (with long sessions) day at VIR North and a full weeknd at VIR South. I missed the last session of the weekend, because I went to the backing plate on the pads in the previous session. (we all know how well that works )

I know others with different cars still, and nearly the same experience.

 

no issues with xp9s on my 2300lb hatch. at this rate it looks like i'll get about 4 weekends on them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RexRacer19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have had the same results with my CRX. I had a set of XP8s that lasted a weekend at summit main and a weekend at VIR full. I did not feel they would last another weekend after that. Maybe a single day, but not a weekend.

Next, I try a set of XP9s...even worse. I do a single (with long sessions) day at VIR North and a full weeknd at VIR South. I missed the last session of the weekend, because I went to the backing plate on the pads in the previous session. (we all know how well that works )

I know others with different cars still, and nearly the same experience.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I know each driver/setup is different but I can just relate my experience with my XP8's. I pushed them one session too far and caught my brakes on fire when the calipers began leaking fluid. This was my own stupid fault and I am still happy that I got 8+ track days, a couple autocrosses, and very limited street driving out of them. I think its time for some bigger Brakes. Oh, and thank god I had that fire exstinguisher and only one side caught fire because they were so hot after I put them out they would catch fire again.

I am still plan on using Carbotechs in whatever my new setup is.

Tracks ran were 3 days Beaver Run, 3 Days Mid Ohio, and 2 Days Nelson Ledges
Brake ducts were used for only about 5 days.

 

I am not sure what the difference could be (obviously different tracks) but they have not lasted very long. Heck, I got more life out of a set of Super Street compounds (3 track weekends and 2 seasons of auto-x) than with the XP8s and 9s. I am going to try some Hawk Blues, this next go-around and see if they hold up any better.

 

Did you bed them before you took them on track?

I got 5 weekends out of my last set of XP8's, and I kept them as backups - they'll go one more weekend.

 

Man that's bizzare. I was getting 3 and 4 weekends out of XP9s front / Panther Plus rear in my H3 car (2600 lbs, skimpy little 4-lug Civic brakes too). I mean for what I was doing to them I thought they wore like iron. At places like CMP no less, which is hell on brakes.

I dunno. I'm sure MaddMatt will get up on here tomorrow sometime and try to offer some technical support.

Followup questions: You got ducting? Have you removed the splash shields?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was getting 3 and 4 weekends out of XP9s front / Panther Plus rear in my H3 car (2600 lbs, skimpy little 4-lug Civic brakes too).</TD></TR></TABLE>

You were running civic brakes on your teg!?

 

No, the GSR rotors are nearly the same size as the civic ex/si rotors.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, the GSR rotors are nearly the same size as the civic ex/si rotors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know this, but that isn't what he said.

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=920288

Call Jack and see what he's doing different

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Note, I get about 6 track days on the Spec-VR's.</TD></TR></TABLE> At the same track (Beaverun)?

Matt&lt;---will be running weekend #4 on a set of 9s next weekend...

 

If you dont give them enough time for the pads to cool after bedding (or bed them properly) they will die a short, fiery death.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krshultz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Followup questions: You got ducting? Have you removed the splash shields? </TD></TR></TABLE>

In my case, I always bed the brakes per mfg. specs before they get thrashed on the track. They are too expensive not to.

I do not have any ducting for now. That is most likley going to be a winter fab project. I do have the front lower part of the fender liners removed and run pretty open wheels (Rota Circuit 8s and Enkei RPO1s) to encourage ventalation on the track. The splash shields are also gone.

What I don't understand, is that I got better wear from a Super Street compound using factory alloys, all splash guards and fender liners in place.

 

I find this impossible to believe. Are you driving them on the street as well? I admit, I've never done that. My car's been off the street for a while now so I've no idea how they wear.

Although...Jack's results are fairly telling here: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=920288

Maybe you're braking too long (as in, not late / hard enough)? I mean I can outbrake a freaking Spec Miata using these things, for a whole 30 minute sprint race, and get AT LEAST three weekends out of them, usually four. Something's not right.

 

My XP8s and 9s saw less than 300 street miles on either set. I don't think that factors in for this case. My car sees very few street miles anymore.

I don't think that I brake too long. I brake hard and quick and generally only leave myself say 1/2 a marker more in the brake zones than the shortest braking distance I can get. Sure, I still have plenty to learn but usually only high HP well driven cars are showing up in the rearview.

I don't feel totally off the wall here, b/c the originator of the post had the same trouble. I also have two friends, who I consider to be good drivers that have had the same experience. One drives an NX2000 and the other a Spec Miata. Both bed in thier brakes properly and both have had rapid wear. One has switched to Hawk Blue and has gotten quite a few weekends out of them and they still look good with a lot of material left. I have pretty much stuck with Carbotech up to this point, so I don't have experience with the other brands yet.

So what else do you think it could be?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I don't understand, is that I got better wear from a Super Street compound using factory alloys, all splash guards and fender liners in place.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Immediately I'm thinking you're a better, faster driver now then you were when you ran Superstreets.

 

True. I feel like I improve a little more each weekend I am out there. I think that most people can say that. I guess that you are getting at more speed (MPH on the straight) = more stopping to make the next turn which uses more brakes...

Do you think that with XP8s or 9s the "fastest" drivers are going to have more brake wear or less than the "not so fast" drivers? I know that is a loaded question in many ways, but I would be interested in what you think.

Do you think that cooling (ducting) in itself will have a large impact on pad life?

I have always felt like the brakes on my car were a bit small, and that is a handicap in itself. One day I hope to race, so the mods I do are always within the ITA/H4 rules. Otherwise, I would have gone with some brakes with more capacity by now. I have had them boil on me once at Summit main a couple of years ago...not fun going into T1. I can say that by getting rid of the splash shields, running the XP8s and 9s, and being **** about bleeding fluid, that has not happened since. The brakes are working better than ever, just not lasing from a wear standpoint.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RexRacer19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think that with XP8s or 9s the "fastest" drivers are going to have more brake wear or less than the "not so fast" drivers? I know that is a loaded question in many ways, but I would be interested in what you think.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Think of a bell-curve:

Novice------------Intermediate-----------Advanced

As a 'Novice' you may not use pads at all, since you're going pretty damn slow. As you get faster, or 'Intermediate', you're going to start eating them up because your speeds are going to be high but your braking skills are not uberleet yet. As you become an 'Advanced driver' you will cut down on your brake zones, and eat less pad. Of course this varies with every driver, but it is a pretty general rule.


Modified by MichaelJComputer at 9:31 AM 9/7/2004

 

So if the graph is correct...and I do a conservative self-assesment on skill...if I had these pads a couple of years ago I might have only been able to get a day or maybe a weekend out of them

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RexRacer19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if the graph is correct...and I do a conservative self-assesment on skill...if I had these pads a couple of years ago I might have only been able to get a day or maybe a weekend out of them </TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe your self-assessment is wrong? I know Yack certainly isn't a bad driver, and he isn't eating his up on an EP bus...

Not trying to be offensive, but maybe you're simply not braking efficiently.

 

One set of 1108's lasted me the complete 2002 ECHC season in my H1 hatch.......FYI

 

I don't know why the thread starter has had a bad experience with carbotech. My experience with them has been very favorable. I had a 3400lb. tt supra that I ran 1108s with some good ducting and never had a rapid pad deterioation or track issues at Road Atlanta (easy on brakes except for 10a), TGPR (rough on brakes and tires), or Barber (somewhere in between). I don't claim to be the latest braker on the planet but with the Supra I could usually feel ABS pulsing in a few places every lap. I don't claim to be the next Senna but I am a decent driver with respectable lap times. With a heavier car I did the street bed method and the track bed method (one short light track session). I have put 1109s on my B18c CRX but have not had an opportunity to run them. I have ducted my rotors and am a strong believer in keeping temps down on the rotors as much as possible. I know several buddies who run improved touring on the 1109s and 1110s and so far they have liked the performance and longevity of them.
Barry H.

 

I always look at myself with a critical eye first...

I brake as hard and as quickly as I can, usually trail slightly on turn-in and am rolling back on the gas before the apex. The tires feel like they are doing all they can, and I use all the track that is there. I am not sure how much more efficiency I can gain.

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If one set of pads doesn't work for you, they don't work for you. Try some others. If you find that none of them work for you (your driving/braking style) then maybe you have a concern. If there was a magic pad that worked equally well for all driving types, there wouldn't be much reason for all the variations of race pads out there. Sounds to me like this pad/pad type just doesn't work well for you (perhaps in a different car, on a different set of tracks, blah blah blah - it might be perfect) - no real biggie, doesn't mean you are driving incorrectly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you bed them before you took them on track?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I did. And I don't street dive this car at all, so other than the brake in time it was track use only.

I have brake ducts, and no splash shield. And yes the spec-VR's can go 6 days at beaver run, it's the track I spend the most time at. I'm brake between the 100 and 150 yard markers on the front strait. I was running mid 1:10 on fulkan Azenis tires, so I don't believe I'm "riding" the bakes much more than I need to.

Maybe I got a bad batch? I don't know, but I'm just going to stick with the spec-VR's from now on becaue they work for me, my car and my driving style.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although...Jack's results are fairly telling here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=920288
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's the XP8's. They might work fine up front, I only tried the xp9's. I had the xp8's in the rear and they did great, but just about any pad can handle the rear. Maybe I will give the xp8's a go for the front some time.