Ok, heres my situation, ive been doing modifications to my stock honda accord 98 lx, So far what ive done to my car is a shot ram intake, 2.5inch header 4.2.1 and exaust (similar muffler style to the borla universal turbo xl which sound nice in my opinion, never much cared for the canister style muffler) and ive replace the power steering and alternator pulleys, of course everyone already knows stock its 150hp, ive deluded myself into thinking that those mods have me close to 190hp, dont really know, having gone to have the car dyno'ed.

But my question is what are the limitations on the F22 ?b2? VTEC engine (2.3 l SOHC). Im just trying to figure out what can and cant be done to the engine without having to open it up and modify it internally.
And a subquestion being, whats the transmission model, and how much can that handle.
Subnote: im eventually planning on dropping an h22 with a turbo and auto 5 speed tranny but that is a plan further down the road. And why an auto? because the car already is an auto, most people i have heard about auto to manuel change overs have said a lot have short live attached. Dont know if that true or not, but as usual i leave it to people who actually have worked on cars to do the truth telling.

My reason for asking is because im considering upgrading the fuel rails and fuel pressure regulator..... and yes the computer is stock, i still have yet to find a good place to get that upgraded.

If i sound ignorant about all this, thats because i am, this is my third vehicle and my first attempt at learning everything i can about it. And so far, no, i havent screwed anything up on it

So anyone able to help me out on weblinks and suggested fuel rails and regulators, as well as insults etc etc feel free.

ps.... everything on the outside is stock other then the look of the muffler, so it sounds like a ricer, it doesnt look like one. ^_^


Modified by marbro at 4:51 PM 9/2/2004

 

First off your engine is not the F22, that's a 2.2 litre (hence the 22 in the engine code). Yours is more than likely the F23B1 (I had a 2000 accord and this was it's engine code, Rest In Peace ) There is no way your getting 190 out of those mods, you'll be lucky to get that if you totally build the engine with just bolt ons (no machining) Odds are you're putting out about 165 to the crank. If you plan on boosting in the future, I would suggest simply boosting the F23. Loads less money and the engine holds up very well to boost. As far as modding the engine without touching the internals, you'll only get minimal gains. The money is in the guts! And if you still want to drop an h22 into it... **** the 23 let it sit as is and save your money (you'll need plenty )

 

I would go with the h22 if those were the options.

 

The F series are pretty boost friendly but the auto tranny might not like it. You could still get a tranny cooler and go with some low boost. Maybe something around 5 or 6. That would really help out. But also, a 5 speed auto? The only 5 speed autos are the new styles and I don't think you can mate an H22 to those. I mean anything is possible with money, but I don't think many people have that much.

Cliffnotes: Try about 5 psi turbo and tranny cooler.

 

At most im looking at changing the fuel injectors to work with the fuel pressure regulator, seeing as i can get a good one for a decent price, as for dropping a turbo on this engine, i would have trouble justifying it without internal work, knowing my luck i would shatter the rod even with that. But thanks for all the info

 

your not going to shatter honda rods with a turbo. Honda's are built like friggen bulls, that's why everyone loves them. Especially at 5-6 psi, no worries about the internals at all.

 

hehe, well i wasnt really serious about it doing that, it was more a based on my luck comment, ive done most of the work to the car myself, and im just amazed nothing has gone wrong, but does anyone think it would be helpful to change the fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator (and want to set it at? adjustable 20 to 80 ), and fuel injectors? and the comment earlier was deluding myself into thinking it was 190hp, i know i should have at least 170, i would at least hope i got 20 hp between header, intake, exaust, and pulleys

 

You can't really get too much out of Hondas without going boost or internal so you probably don't even have that.

A good set of cams would help and can be pretty reliable if you get a mild grind for just a little power increase. Look around for F23 cams, they would put that intake and headers to good use.

 

well, i dont think that 20 hp is out of the question for those parts, especially considering the guys at an autoshop i usually try get info from say theres an average of 15 hp that they see for those particular parts, and i dont think anyone can tell me that i didnt get 5 hp from replacing the pulleys, i dont buy into the you can get 10 to 15 hp just from this mod bs, but ive been considering getting an adjustable cam sprocket, i just dont understand the whole advancing and retarding the gear possition and how that effects things.


mind you, stock the car is 150 hp

 

 

wish i had info to contrabute to this topic but i don't and thats why im going to ask a similar question. i have a 99 accord ex 4dr 4cyl 2.3, its not dual cam so i guess its a single cam? i don't mean to sound dumb but i dont know the termanology. my question is would that engine and the rest of my car be able to handle 5 to 6 turbo without internal modifacation and if so how many horsees would that approxamtely give me, also i wonder what you guys would say my hp is at? just like marbro mine is listed at 150 stock but I have an aem cold air intake , an air mass header, and a bolt on 2.5 inch exhaust with a test pipe in place of the cat with a magnaflow muffler, to me its still to slow for the 1300 or more i have put into it.

 

too slow for the 1300.... like everyone says, you arnt going to get a whole lot out of an natually asperated engine, thats where forced induction comes into play, and the cheapest full turbo kit that ive seen is about 2700, but from the look of it the turbo is mounted to the actual piping for the turbo manifold, and the one that i was considing is like.... 800 more, so i dont really know, i just dont want to think of the work i would have to put in just to bolt it on

but anyways, your looking at more power through forced induction, and all im trying to do is find out what little mods i can do that will only help a little, but will make the difference when the turbo actually gets put on

 

I hear you man 1300 aint **** but its the little things that start to add up in cost and not so much in speed, this is the case for me at least, any ways earlier you mentioned the power stearing and altenater pulleys, was that a pretty easy job and how much did you pay?

 

bought the pulleys online for about 160 with shipping, local shop was like.... yes 220 for the pulleys, and instal 75 per pulley.... so i said screw that and did it myself (help with friends who had more tools then i did)

its not that diffcult, removing power steering pulley and the belts is the easy part..... the alternator is hell tho, im just glad my friend had a shop with an impact gun, thats going to be the easiest way to take off the bolt for the alternator pulley, otherwise you need like a 22mm and a 17 mm box wrench not sure if those are the exact sized, but about, and when you have those on, well... hope you have stong arms, cause the bolt isnt going to come off as easy as the power steering one but, the box comes with instuctions and another set of belts if you get the AEM brand box

 

**** i got arms like arnold but im still pretty novice with **** like that, ill definitly look into it for 5 to 10 hp, the sad part about it is i have afew supposed, freinds that have the tools and the know how but are also shady and jelous prone, hence the supposed part, any ways thanks and good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marbro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, i dont think that 20 hp is out of the question for those parts, especially considering the guys at an autoshop i usually try get info from say theres an average of 15 hp that they see for those particular parts, and i dont think anyone can tell me that i didnt get 5 hp from replacing the pulleys, i dont buy into the you can get 10 to 15 hp just from this mod bs, but ive been considering getting an adjustable cam sprocket, i just dont understand the whole advancing and retarding the gear possition and how that effects things.


mind you, stock the car is 150 hp</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ideal to making power on a honda is... to get the air in and out with as much volume and velocity as possible. Before you spend all your money on a fuel setup and cam gear, make sure you fix your restrictions.

ie. open up your throttle body, intake manifold, some head work, valvetrain, lightweight valves, a good cam (very important), gear, and a good header (very important) and open up your exhaust (cats are your single most restrictive part in your exhaust system). To take advantage of the new cam and valvetrain, your stock pistons will not give them enough compression to be efficient. So you will then need to upgrade those and sleave your block, while you're in there you might as well add new rods, bolts and bearings. After that, you'll need more fuel and you'll need to tune it or it will run like **** on your stock accord ecu program. All in all, you end up rebuilding your entire assembly to make any power with your F22.

Even after all that, you will probably only see up to 200 at the crank. Which leads you to the realization that, you have more potential with a DOHC prelude motor because the end result on that motor with the above listed modifications will net you up to 240-260 at the crank... and we haven't even gotten onto the topic of stroking your motor.

Remember this, 200 whp (approx. 235-240 at the crank) will only land you a 14 sec time slip on your heavy *** slushbox.

You decide. Good luck.


Modified by Escobar at 8:56 AM 9/4/2004

 

i remember when i was a young ricer and believed that an intake would add 15HP. i bet you only gained about 10-15HP with all the mods you listed. as for upgrading a F22, its a waste of time unless you put a turbo on there. and yes, you should be safe to run at least 7-8 psi on stock internals.

 

or nitrous.

aem intake
python fuel system
max bore throttle body
64mm intake ported to mismatch
ported and polished head mismatched and decked to 10.7:1
new honda pistons, rings ,seals ,gaskets and bearings(factory internals)
new honda valvespring and retainers
crower regrind camshaft
venom adjustable cam gear
venom vcn 2000 programable nitrous system up to 175 shot
python ems
dc sports header
carsound cat
dual 2.5" ractive catback
msd digital 6 timing retard

not finished yet go to pro-accord.com

 

ok, you have to understand, i have no intention of modifying the internals of my stock engine, when i have the 5000 set aside for the engine i want, then i will go through and modify the internals of it, and oddly enough yes i know the difference in gain between a SOHC and DOHC, so theres no deciding about it, i see no point in modifying an engine that i will just be parting out and selling in the end, im just looking for external mods that will give slight gain, but nothing noticable until i do an engine swap and turbo, mind you, im only setting asaid 5000 for the engine, the trany is a different story tho...... that im not going to like having to replace, but its either that or have to replace it anyways cause i dropped the trany cause of too much power going through it

 

Like you, I am new to these forums and for the most part, to import tuning. I have a 96 Accord Ex as my first car and I am already saving for an h22. I say go for it! Leave the mods alone, but from what I understand, you can get an intake and exhaust on your stock engine and those parts will probably carry on to the h22. At least that's what I was told when I started a thread last week about it. I would hold on to the cash and get ready for a swap bc from what I understand it's a very expensive step especially if u have an auto tranny like me.

 

when you buy your h22 simply get one with a manual transmission...being that your car is a 5th gen, i believe that it has both the mounting....thingies....for the auto/manual trannys....so no mounts or what not need to be fabricated....plus the the h22/h23 trannys will bolt up to the f22 and vice versa so there are no clearence issues...just an FYI (info is based on the auto to manual swap floating around here somewhere )

edit: wow....im retarded....anyway i wouldnt think it would be *too* much more to do the 5spd swap...get some friends who know a little mechanics and plop the bad boy in yourselves and save some money good luck!

 

Where do you recommend buying an h22 online? any good experiences? I searched the forums first (really) but no one stayed on topic so i guess I don't know. Some places claim to have low mileage engines (10k miles on a 99 lude!) seems like bullshit to me. Also for anyone that knows, do I keep accord axles or prelude ones since a few places in memphis install prelude axles on a swap but I dont want axles that will cause problems (certain parts breaking) like what I saw on a thread here.

 

Well there were be some mods that can be transfered over, like fuel rails, fuel pressure regulators, adjustable cam gears, mind you from sohc to dohc you would have to buy one more, many turbo kits are made to work with f22, 23, h22, 23 engines. Thats why im trying to find all the parts i can change over, that way i can take my time doing those.
Im not sure about the quality difference between axels on the accord to the prelude, but the h22 is a direct replacement in accords, the only thing that needs to be done is change the placement of the engine mounts, but everything lines up the same otherwise.

As for a 5 speed swapover, theres alot to that because you need to drill for the clutch and mount that, and i think you also need to drill for the shifter as well.

Ive finally got a good deal going now, through a friend i have access to a complete shop to do whatever the hell i want to my car, time to go overkill and put in a true dual exaust, none of this bs one pipe into a muffler and then two pipe out to the left and right side, i think this might be really helpful when i swap the engine and have a turbo on. might even consider spending the money for the 2 random tech 3inch highflow cats.

 

oh sorry forgot about answering your question, as for actually finding h22 engines, youve got me, when i finally decided to go out and get the engine ive got a few friends i can go through to find one with low mileage, but i couldnt honestly tell you any good places.

 

I heard a few people here say good things about hmotorsonline.com. I would have bought mine from them had I not found a better deal from a personal seller. Madd stated that you have a 5th gen and he's incorrect. I read in your original post that you have a 98 which is a 6th gen. Bottom line, like you said, why make ANY mods to an engine you are going to be swapping out anyway? If you are going to put it in another car and have 2 that's different but why are you wasting your money?