I've been meaning to put this up for a while.




This is a shot of Andrew's old DC ITR. Notice the revised LCA bar pickup - very nice eh? Notice that the bar is some bolt on accessory type bar, and that it had to be stood off the subframe by the corresponding distance the pickup was moved.

This car has been campaigned for about 6 years - with Race Rates - and No Subframe Tearout.

The Heim'd toe links likewise have been on the car since it's construction, with no resulting problems.

The common fears about some of these arrangements are unjustified in cases where the system combination keeps force and stress within reasonable bounds. Doesn't take rocket science - just a little common sense.

Scott, who loves seeing the ratty dirty rusted old DC cars just keep on going...a testament to the cars themselves and their builders....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with Race Rates </TD></TR></TABLE> I only say "you'll have problems" if they're using sub-400 lb spring rates. Setter bafe san thorry.

 

so a thick sway bar , say for example a 23mm will not stress the subframe too much causing it to tear or crack......if spring rates are over 400lbs in the rear of the car?????i have a civic hatch 92.....and im running Hr race springs which are 350 in the rear and a GSR sway bar i believe it is 19mm.......thanks

 

intresting post, got any better pics than that? too dark to see

 

I've still personally seen subframes tear out with 22mm bars and high spring rates. I wouldn't go without some type of reinforcement. but thats just me.

 

how about a picture you can see scott??

 

I agree. As long as the bar is properly installed and the rear spring rates are high enough there shouldn't be an issue.

My old Integra is now on year 8 with no issues. First a 22mm bar and now a 24.

 

Is it the rear spring rate or wheel rate that matters? I've got 440lbs stock springs in the rear (02 Si) but it's also got a horrible motion ratio back there.

 

i don't think EP3's have ever had any of the subframe tearout problems.

 

Of all honda chasis, I think the EK is most prone to tearout. However, I have heard the Comptech endlinks can remedy this problem?

 

Anycar with low spring rates can rip the subframes with bigger bars..

Autox cars rip out all the time, because most drivers still street drive their cars, so they don't want stiff *** springs on them, but like the rotation of big bars... Opps, now your subframe is bent..

Corey - who live his HUGE 28mm adj. saner bar...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of all honda chasis, I think the EK is most prone to tearout. However, I have heard the Comptech endlinks can remedy this problem?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm running the Comptech, and it comes with a very beefy billet tie bar. The tiebar is bolted to the subframe, and the sway is bolted into the tie and subframe distributing the load and preventing tear out.

 

Sorry the pic is so dark, it's the best shot I had. I can try to scan it with more contrast later.

What you can't see so clearly is the sway bar link location in the middle of the LCA - just like the shock mounts. The DC fabricators just cut out the top of the LCA and welded a boss on each side where the original holes (with nut on one side) for the link mount were. The gusset that closes the box on the bottom of the arm more than makes up for the loss of strength.

The bar they used has the same length arm as a stocker, so they had to use those standoff spacers to get the end of the arms where they needed. Crude, elegant, and practical.

I don't know all of the construction details on the various Honda chassis' and which subframes are how beefy.

This pic is of an Integra Type-R rear end, and my comments are restricted to that chassis with rear spring rates of 900 lbs/in or greater.

Scott, who may have been a little over-dramatic...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RR98ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I don't know all of the construction details on the various Honda chassis' and which subframes are how beefy.

This pic is of an Integra Type-R rear end, and my comments are restricted to that chassis with rear spring rates of 900 lbs/in or greater.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I've read in the EG forum, it's mostly the 96-00 civics, and possibly 92-95 as well. They are very weak in the subframe, and have seen quite a few of them torn. It's mostly when the ITR (or similar) bar is run with low rear spring rates. There are even a (very) few cases of the 'Beaks' kit, ST and Progress tie / sway combos tearing even with rates around 500. I picked the Comptech because even with my higher rear rates, I didn't want to have to keep checking the subframe and possibly having to weld it back together.

 

I had an ITR 22m bar(poly bushings on D bracket) with TEIN HA and just some washers along with the d brackets on the bar. Did track time with this and street driving and the car never ripped. This was in a 94 Civic VX

Then I had a 93 Civic DX on ITR rear bar, stock ITR d bracket bushings and also ITR shock n spring combo. This car eventually tore the passenger side bracket of the swaybar on the subframe.

I found it strange that the 93 tore being that the shock/spring combo and sway came from an ITR. This made me think that things would work well together. I guess not.

Do you guys think if more bushings would've been installed in the suspension other than OEM it would've helped the tear problem or is it that the DC has some other forms of reinforcement or thickness in the subframe area?

Thanks,

Francisco

 

The ITR subframe is not the same as the other integras or hatches. Its stronger and all the bolt holes are in not quite the same places.

 

So would a 19mm bar be safe on a EF running 350-450 rear?

Auto-x/Daily

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R you serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">intresting post, got any better pics than that? too dark to see</TD></TR></TABLE>



The "gamma" seting in Microsoft photo editor has saved my bad picture taking butt on more than one occasion.... very handy!