Here is the first minute from the Sunday race at Mid-Ohio as seen from Jeff Owen's car. I've tried to keep the quality high but be aware that the avi plays back much more 'jerky' than the original DV. Please right click and save to your computer for viewing as I'm paying for the bandwidth!

My notes from the video:
0:02 - contact with red S2000
0:32 - contact with yellow Civic (you can't see the Civic in the video, but there are about 3 hits between the two cars which can been seen from the deviation from line in the in car video). From looking at Jeff's car today that contact was mainly around the left rear wheel.
0:57 - red S2000 slides off track
1:02 - contact with red Civic.

I won't tell you want to make of the video, but watch the video several times, then watch the video and imagine you are the driver of the car in the video, and think about what actions you would have taken. Then watch the video again and imagine that you are the drivers of the other cars in the video, and think about what line you are following, what you might be thinking at the time, and what other cars near you might be doing.

The only comment I have about the race was the way the start was gridded. Having raced at a national level in a country running to FIA rules, where standing starts are the norm, I find that cars are far too tightly packed for standing starts at events I have been to. In other countries most tracks have a grid laid out of the start line. The normal formation is staggered zig zag style with significant space between each car - perhaps 3 car lengths to the car directly in front of you. This will make the 30th car in the grid a long way from the 1st car, so usually lights and often repeater lights are used. The aim of the start is for all the cars to form a single line in the first corner, and then proceed around the track without incidient. I can't see how this is possible with the cars packed as tightly as they were on Sunday (I was watching from the grandstand). This means after the start everyone is at least two wide, and that is going to cause problems in the first lap - as did happen.

** Update ** Sorry, I had to take the video off our website as it was generating 4 GB of traffic per day.


Modified by rubber chicken at 9:43 AM 8/29/2004


Modified by rubber chicken at 9:49 AM 8/29/2004

 

Derek,

I thought the same thing about the gridding. I wanted at least 2-3 car lenghts between us but the NASA officials on the grid made me pull up to the car in front (H1). I was about 1 to 1 1/2 car lengths behind. At the start I nearly hit the H1 car in front.

At most ECHC races I have done this year we were much further apart.

Judging from Jeff's video it's tough to really know what each driver was thinking in regards to the last incident. From the video it looks like a "racing" incident but you can't really tell how much room Jeff gave to Keving and vice versa.

Given that Jeff's car is RHD he should have been able to see Kevin's car beside him.

If you stop the video at exactly 1:02 you will see that Kevin's left rear wheel is about even with Jeff's front nose. At this stage I would think that Jeff would back off a bit but at this speed maybe there wasn't time.

At 1:03 it appears that Kevin cuts across for the apex.

Tough to tell at this speed, but it doesn't look like either person gave the other room.

It would be nice to see in car from one of the cars directly behind Jeff and Kevin.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
#40 Guident Technoligies/HRPWorld.com Integra LS H4

 

i am unable to see the video...i can only hear it.... any idea'rs why?

 

Try downloading the DivX codec. That is what I had to do (though I probably should have installed the 6 month free Pro version...). The regular free version ran very choppy for me.

 

Thanks Derek' for posting the incident from my perspective. I have agonized over this thing and looked at the video a hundred times, And if I had the time over I honestly can't say I would have done anything differently. I place no blame on Kevin... I do think he cut in on my line a little too quickly, and why were his brake lights on if he was able to make a clean pass? I consider it an unfortunate Racing Incident.
Jon, as you say... Stop the video at exactly 1:02... Have you thought about the time span between 1:02 and 1:03?? Wouldnt it be great if life was like that... and we could all just stop the clock a split second before we ended up in a river of ****?
As I have said before, I am appealing the penalties imposed, so I can't get into this too much. I offer my condolences to everyone who was involved in the incident, and good luck in the future.
Kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. I offer my condolences to everyone who was involved in the incident, and good luck in the future.
Kiwi</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

after seeing the video i think its just an racing incident, but then again WTF do i know.

 

i still can't see the damned video (maybe my work computer will be able to view it)....but I know I really went zipping off at turn 3 right in front of the "incident". Hopefully Kevin, Ed & Jon get their cars fixed quickly and cheaply.

 

We need video from all 4 cars involved in the wreck . To know exacly what happened. From KIWI's video I would not think it should be blamed all on KIWI as he was running his line when the red civic cut to the apex. AGAIN I would like to see the videos from all 4 cars even the ones behind them to come to a conclusion.
Looks like to blame everything on KIWI is not the right thing to do.


Modified by ITAIntegraLS at 8:29 PM 8/28/2004

 

excellent post,
this video can serve as great reminder of how easily things can go wrong. hope everything works out for you kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i still can't see the damned video (maybe my work computer will be able to view it)....but I know I really went zipping off at turn 3 right in front of the "incident". Hopefully Kevin, Ed & Jon get their cars fixed quickly and cheaply.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Quickly YES, cheaply NO !!!!!!!! I am already at $900 in parts and that's assuming after we fix the suspension it aligns properly on an alignment machine and that the steering rack is ok.

I also lost one of my Volks ($350 new) which I am not going to replace.

Costly weekend, but hey what else would I do with my disposable cash........take the kids to Disneyworld ??

I may try to make it to Beaverun to shake the car down, if not see everyone at Summit.

Regards,

Jon

 

If anyone has an extra 5lug rear hub let me know.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITAIntegraLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We need video from all 4 cars involved in the wreck . To know exacly what happened. From KIWI's video I would not think it should be blamed all on KIWI as he was running his line when the red civic cut to the apex. AGAIN I would like to see the videos from all 4 cars even the ones behind them to come to a conclusion.
Looks like to blame everything on KIWI is not the right thing to do.


Modified by ITAIntegraLS at 8:29 PM 8/28/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>


does not matter where kiwi is on track....if kevin is in front of him and there is contact it is JEFF's fault!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD.....read the ccr.....

i know this cause i got dq'd at VIR for a tap.....he came down on me.....i had the inside.....but he came on my line but that don't matter cause he was in front of me!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
does not matter where kiwi is on track....if Kevin is in front of him and there is contact it is JEFF's fault!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD.....read the ccr.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not completely correct Chad...
You need to read the CCR's in thier entirety... not just one paragraph.
You will see that not only the driver being passed, but also the passing driver must <U>leave racing room</U>, in order for it to be deemed a clean pass... You can see by my line on the video that there was plenty of room on my right whether I had seen Kevin or not! There is nowhere for me to go on the left, except off the track!
I will publish all of the arguments after my appeal. I am not trying to shift the blame... I consider it a racing incident! Believe me the whole event was frought with inconsistency, inexperience and conflict of interests.
I really have nothing to gain from my appeal except having a DQ turned into a DNF and the three race suspension lifted. I just want to see that no one else gets shafted like this again, just as you obviously were at VIR?
I just want it known that I did not, nor would I, spend a fortune sending 3 cars and crew 2500 miles, bust my and my whole crew's asse's trying to get our #65 car back into the competition, Change gearboxes in my car twice... just to deliberately take someone out in the first lap!
I think my cost for the weekend is way more than all of the others involved combined?

Kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You will see that not only the driver being passed, but also the passing driver must <U>leave racing room</U>, in order for it to be deemed a clean pass... You can see by my line on the video that there was plenty of room on my right whether I had seen Kevin or not! There is nowhere for me to go on the left, except off the track!

Kiwi</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is correct. You must leave racing room. Both SCCA and NASA (and most other sanctioning bodies) call for "racing room" when two or more cars enter a corner.

I think that the "racing room" clause leaves much doubt as to who is mostly to blame in this incident. Clearly Kiwi is entitled to "racing room" in this instance but the question is Kevin's line through the corner. It looks like he cuts across toward the apex denying Kiwi of "racing room" but again this is all from one camera angle so it's impossibly to make such an assumption.

I think video from one of the cars behind all this would be helpful in determining who did what.

Regards,

Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kedwards &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Try downloading the DivX codec. That is what I had to do (though I probably should have installed the 6 month free Pro version...). The regular free version ran very choppy for me.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I downloaded the DivX codec, and still, nothing is showing. I'm getting audio, but no picture. Any ideas? Can someone possibly convert this to mpeg or something else that my winamp will play? After the discussion that's gone on about this incident, I'm really interested in seeing what happened.

 

Try installing the latest DivX and Xvid codecs. After that if it still does not work in Windows Media Player, try opening it in Media Player Classic, VLC Player, BS Player, or RealPlayer. You will need to download those if you have not already.

 

I didn't try using Winamp to play this, but I downloaded the DivX codec to another PC, and it played in both versions of MediaPlayer (6.4 and 9.0).

For my "regular" PC, it played for me using RealOne.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FormulaIntegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I downloaded the DivX codec, and still, nothing is showing. I'm getting audio, but no picture. Any ideas? Can someone possibly convert this to mpeg or something else that my winamp will play? After the discussion that's gone on about this incident, I'm really interested in seeing what happened. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

I tried playing it on the DivX player, and it didn't work, then made my post about it not working, then went back and tried WinAmp with the DivX codec installed, and it worked fine.

Based on the discussions on the other thread, I thought Jeff was being a complete, reckless a** out there, which didn't sound like the Jeff I've met a couple of times. I know competition between he and Andy, among others, can get pretty fierce out there, but I've never known him to race so hard that he put's others safety at risk. After seeing his video, it appears more and more to be just a racing incident. Granted, videos from following cars would explain a bit better, but it does appear the Kevin may have not seen him, and just cut across towards the apex. Does this make him at fault? Not necessarily. He was driving his line, and it was Jeff's responsibility to safely overtake. Does that mean it's KIWI's fault? I don't think so, because I don't feel that KIWI moved up so quickly that it wasn't reasonable to assume that Kevin couldn't have seen him there, and granted him "racing room". Personally, I think Kevin was hoping to cut across the front of Jeff, and secure the line, but misjudged how fast Jeff was going. Would that make it Kevin's fault? I don't know. It's all subjective at that point.

I do hope we get to see some more videos, from other angles. I also hope KIWI's appeal goes well, Kevin's rebuild isn't too torturous (or expensive), and that we all can learn something from this. And that it doesn't, in some way, embitter the EC v. WC rivalry that, so far, has been good natured ribbing (or rubbing, as it were).

 

i think Ed's (the little skinny guy with vasoline in his cornhole) car got the worst damage by far.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FLATOUTRACING &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is correct. You must leave racing room. Both SCCA and NASA (and most other sanctioning bodies) call for "racing room" when two or more cars enter a corner.

I think that the "racing room" clause leaves much doubt as to who is mostly to blame in this incident. Clearly Kiwi is entitled to "racing room" in this instance but the question is Kevin's line through the corner. It looks like he cuts across toward the apex denying Kiwi of "racing room" but again this is all from one camera angle so it's impossibly to make such an assumption.

I think video from one of the cars behind all this would be helpful in determining who did what.

Regards,

Jon</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your constructive comments Jon, it's quite reassuring to have real racers look at the tape from my perspective and see that there was no blatant attempt to punt Kevin. This is why I am appealing Mr Mansier's penalty's. Not to shift blame to Kevin... But to show that the NASA officials were inconsistent/wrong in their in interpreting their own CCR's.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by (FormulaIntegra) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
He was driving his line, and it was Jeff's responsibility to safely overtake. Does that mean it's KIWI's fault? I don't think so, because I don't feel that KIWI moved up so quickly that it wasn't reasonable to assume that Kevin couldn't have seen him there, and granted him "racing room". Personally, I think Kevin was hoping to cut across the front of Jeff, and secure the line, but misjudged how fast Jeff was going. Would that make it Kevin's fault? </TD></TR></TABLE>

For the record... It was me, Kiwi that was being overtaken before the incident... And as the tape clearly shows, I was left NO Rcing room,. However it can clearly be seen that there was ample room on my right for Kevin to pass cleanly.
Again... I am not trying to shift blame and any comments about the other drivers in
my appeal are merely to illustrate the bad judgement calls by officials.

Kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hopefully Kevin, Ed & Jon get their cars fixed quickly and cheaply.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Kevin is working on it, got the door and suspension is fixed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
For the record... It was me, Kiwi that was being overtaken before the incident...
Kiwi </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry, Kiwi, my bad. I thought you were coming up on his inside. I'll have to go back and look at it one more time.

 

I am the driver of the civic,I dont think KIWI hit me on purpose.However in rgards to racing room , and im still learning the rules,25.42.2 in the CCR says"punting is defined as blatant nose to tail contact. where the leading car &lt;which was i&gt; is significantly knocked off the racing line. once the trailing car has its front fender next to the front door of the leading car ,it is considered that the trailing car has a right to be there. and that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver enough "racing room". In most cases 'racing room is defined as at least three quarters of one car width."If adequate racing room is left for the trailing car ,and there is incidental contact made between the cars ,the contact will be considered "side to side ."In most cases ,incidental side to side contact is considered to be " just a racing incident".If in the case of side to side contact ,one of the cars leaves the racing surface (involuntarily) then it may still be considered a racing incident. NOTE the whole intent of the "wheel next to th driver door " rule is to make sure that the overtaken driver sees the overtaking driver.
I was not trying to squeeze KIWI of the track i was following my line I took the whole weekend. the reason for going so far to the right of the track in turn three was to give scot #30 S2K room to safely return on track. KIWI was not by my driver's door. That is how ive always aprouched a pass if i wasnt at least beside the driver or passenger door i didnt pass. I hold no hard feelings against anyone and look forward to the next race.I had a great weekend anyway seeing all my honda challenge folks.See Yall soon.

 

Thanks for your cool headed comments Kevin, As I said before, I consider the whole thing a racing incident... And the purpose of my appeal is not to try and shift the blame... but to try and point out to NASA that their officials need to know and fully understand the rules before they take cars out of the race without knowing all the facts. All comments about this and other incidents I have made in my appeal are merely to illustrate my points. I have not, and will not, ask for any other driver to be penalised in any way.

Kiwi