This car is available to Rent.




Modified by di rang at 2:24 PM 8/27/2004

 

 

is this even a RR/auto-x car?? kinda looks like a drag car with the one peace front end

 

original plans was to make a team road race car.

the goal for this car is not to WIN. there are 3 purposes for this car

1 to have fun
2 for individuals who want to become DRIVERS get more seat time
3 grow the sport

 

any info on whats done and what not?

i think it would be good to list

 

to rent haha sry

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlipSkater &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes yes yes....i know i am a post and thread *****....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Any particular reason you have to do it here?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by di rang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">original plans was to make a team road race car.

the goal for this car is not to WIN. there are 3 purposes for this car

1 to have fun
2 for individuals who want to become DRIVERS get more seat time
3 grow the sport</TD></TR></TABLE>

So is it available for rent for competition or HPDE only? What classes is it legal for?

 

it is available for competition ... wouldn't recommend

intented for 'beginner' level driver

strongly feel that it would be more 'cost' effective for someone who wants to become a 'driver' first rather than 'race car builder / driver second' to rent a car

a driver needs to get out there and get experience rather than getting caught up in the building process of a 'fast car'

could always build road race car by learning from a car like this

not many drivers would allow someone drive their own car

took a lot of hours (years worth) for people like Andy Hope, Shawn Bota, Sam Higashi, Glen Kawano, Kiwi, Derek ... to get where they are today with both their car and driving ablity

 

hey its squirt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by di rang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">intented for 'beginner' level driver

strongly feel that it would be more 'cost' effective for someone who wants to become a 'driver' first rather than 'race car builder / driver second' to rent a car

a driver needs to get out there and get experience rather than getting caught up in the building process of a 'fast car'

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i think many people would agree that a "beginner" should be driving a stock or close to stock car to learn.last thing they need is a super fast car with WAY more potential than they could ever use at that skill level.

anyways,more pics/specs?how much to rent?how's the insurance work?what if i wad it up?will the car include windows ?
Chris

 

car is about 90% complete

will perform shakedown some time soon

about to dyno tune

would like to invite some of the more experience drivers to take it out

 

What exactly, if any, class was this car built for? I'm confused.

 

It would be a regional class, SPU/GTU.

 

beginners need to learn in beginner cars. This means if you have never driven on the track before get into something with less than 100hp, less than the top of the line suspension, less than R compound, etc.

this is just the philosophy that has been told to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamNextGenChris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


anyways,more pics/specs?how much to rent?how's the insurance work?what if i wad it up?will the car include windows ?
Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM EK9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">beginners need to learn in beginner cars. This means if you have never driven on the track before get into something with less than 100hp, less than the top of the line suspension, less than R compound, etc.

this is just the philosophy that has been told to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just becuase it has been told to you doesn't mean it is correct.

I get irritated about these weird things that people say that seem like common sense, but really are nonsense. I agree that it doesn't make sense for a beginner to go out there with something that is wild and crazy with a ton of wheelspin, oversteer and generally difficult to handle, but that doesn't mean they benefit by an under powered, weak handling car with hard tires.

A specific horsepower level has nothing to do with it. Neither does having a high-end suspension, or having R compound tires. It is not any harder or more dangerous to learn on sticky tires then it is with street tires. In fact I'd say you're a lot less likely to overtax the race tires and it is actually better to run them.

Same with power... Point in fact: An Integra Type R (with good HP to weight ratio, top of the line factory suspension) is a better car to learn on then a 1986 Honda Accord because the Type R is going to provide a more stable, consistent, safe and nuetral platform. The key to learning is consistency, which you're more likely to get with a modern car (that likely has more then 100hp unless it is a Kia), with good bushings, bearings, etc. provides--regardless of the hp amount. The best car to take is any car that the driver is comfortable with, that is in excellent mechanical condition, with bearings, tie rods, etc. that are with spec, good tires, and that is going to be consistant and maintanance free (should concentrate on learning not wrenching) throughout the entire session. Specific HP, tires, and suspension are simply not an issue. That is how one learns how to drive.

This is also the same reason that people who say "Autocross is a great way to learn how to race" are full of ****. Autocross is a crappy way to learn, because you get no consistency and because of that you don't get any feedback on how you're improving, and then because by the time you learn anything the day is over and you can't reinforce what you've learned. 10 laps with an instructor on a road corse and a student will probably learn more then a season of autocross. Anyone who says that "Autocross is a great way to learn" is an idiot--Autocross is simply the easiest way to get into the sport, the least expensive and most convenient. That doesn't mean it is the best.

So before people just mindlessly regurgitate what they've read or heard other idiots say, think about what you're saying and weather or not you're simply reinforcing a non-truth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is also the same reason that people who say "Autocross is a great way to learn how to race" are full of ****. Autocross is a crappy way to learn, because you get no consistency and because of that you don't get any feedback on how you're improving, and then because by the time you learn anything the day is over and you can't reinforce what you've learned. 10 laps with an instructor on a road corse and a student will probably learn more then a season of autocross. Anyone who says that "Autocross is a great way to learn" is an idiot--Autocross is simply the easiest way to get into the sport, the least expensive and most convenient. That doesn't mean it is the best.
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I guess T.C. Kline, Peter Cunningham, Jeff Altenberg, Shauna Marinus, Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg, etc. are all idiots for starting off in autocross???

Autocross is only a crappy way to learn if you will always suck at driving and have no ambitions of running any higher than midpack in a road race. If you can rank at the top in autocross, you'll have no problems road racing, and the drivers I mentioned above have shown that.

 

Nice looking car... Good idea to rent it out and help the sport grow.
Our Team will also have two, possibly three competitive H1 cars available for rent to worthy drivers next season. There are lots of people out there who have the ability to drive well and could afford $1000 to $1500 per weekend for a really competitive car, but would rather not spend $30,000 to build one, never mind maintaining it.
Good idea, good luck with it.

Kiwi

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sean O’Gorman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I guess T.C. Kline, Peter Cunningham, Jeff Altenberg, Shauna Marinus, Hurley Haywood, Peter Gregg, etc. are all idiots for starting off in autocross???

Autocross is only a crappy way to learn if you will always suck at driving and have no ambitions of running any higher than midpack in a road race. If you can rank at the top in autocross, you'll have no problems road racing, and the drivers I mentioned above have shown that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I said it is a crappy way to learn--That doesn't mean a lot of drivers can start out in autocross and sucessfully move to road racing. That is just plain faulty logic. By that logic the best way to be a good race car driver is to drink Coca Cola because Cunningham, Klienubing, Schumacher have. Those drivers would probably have been just as good if they never had done autocross at all, and they would have done so far quicker if they had of done more road racing earlier on and less autocross.

Racing is racing. A guy who is good at road racing will probably be decent at autocrossing, and vice versa. But it is still better, easier, quicker and less frusterating (although not less expensive) to learn those universal skills on a road course then it is in a parking lot. It is just a factor of consistency (courses that change every weekend), seat time (&lt; 10 minutes vs. an hour or more per day), identification (being able to track your improvement, i.e. lap times over more then a single day) and reinforcement (discovering an improvement and then not being able to have any more runs to make sure you have it down).

Another corollary: if autocross is such a great place to learn, why aren't existing pro road race drivers constantly going back to it to practice and polish their skills? It is because it is not a good environment to improving skills, takes a lot of time for not a lot of actual run time, and is generally not worth the effort.

People like to kid themselves that autocross is a great place to learn, but the truth is that it is simply the most attainable level of racing, and is the most convenient to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have done autocrossing for years before I went on real road courses. The first weekend I was on a road course I improved more then years of autocrossing. The only reason it is a good place to start is because you can do it and begin building *some* skills for not a lot of money or having a dedicated car. You're delusional if you think it is the best way to really learn and improve. If you can afford to race on a track, start there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rotten &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I said it is a crappy way to learn--That doesn't mean a lot of drivers can start out in autocross and sucessfully move to road racing. That is just plain faulty logic. By that logic the best way to be a good race car driver is to drink Coca Cola because Cunningham, Klienubing, Schumacher have. Those drivers would probably have been just as good if they never had done autocross at all, and they would have done so far quicker if they had of done more road racing earlier on and less autocross.

Racing is racing. A guy who is good at road racing will probably be decent at autocrossing, and vice versa. But it is still better, easier, quicker and less frusterating (although not less expensive) to learn those universal skills on a road course then it is in a parking lot. It is just a factor of consistency (courses that change every weekend), seat time (&lt; 10 minutes vs. an hour or more per day), identification (being able to track your improvement, i.e. lap times over more then a single day) and reinforcement (discovering an improvement and then not being able to have any more runs to make sure you have it down).

Another corollary: if autocross is such a great place to learn, why aren't existing pro road race drivers constantly going back to it to practice and polish their skills? It is because it is not a good environment to improving skills, takes a lot of time for not a lot of actual run time, and is generally not worth the effort.

People like to kid themselves that autocross is a great place to learn, but the truth is that it is simply the most attainable level of racing, and is the most convenient to do. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have done autocrossing for years before I went on real road courses. The first weekend I was on a road course I improved more then years of autocrossing. The only reason it is a good place to start is because you can do it and begin building *some* skills for not a lot of money or having a dedicated car. You're delusional if you think it is the best way to really learn and improve. If you can afford to race on a track, start there.

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You list all those attributes of autocross as downsides, but I see them as the opposite. I think they really force you to learn to think and adapt as quickly as possible. I think if a driver is trained to have to read a course and the weather, adjust the car setup accordingly, and set as fast a time as possible in as little as three runs, it strengthens their position as a driver when they move up to road racing.

You can't say autocross is only good because it is cheap, because you obviously can't underestimate the importance of budget in motorsports. If I were to do things over again and reinvest all the money I spent autocrossing on HPDEing, I bet I wouldn't be near as good a driver. I've done 18 events since I started two years ago and the cost of those alone would cover 2, maybe 3 HPDEs, and thats not counting the extra expenses from tires and brake pads.

I don't think you can say many of these road racers who started off in autocross would've been better off if they started off on road courses. Who is to say that some of those guys wouldn't have run out of money on their first year road racing and never returned for a second season? Randy Pobst was doing very well in ProSolos back in the 80s, and he told me himself if it wasn't for that, he never would've been able to make the step up to road racing.

And for the record, I never said it was the best way to learn. Best is something that could be debated endlessly, because you could say that jumping straight into cars is a waste when you could start off in shifter karts, etc. I just think, all things considered, it is a good place to start, whether you have $5,000 or $500,000 to work with.

 

the only place to learn is at a race track

if this car is affordable and helps people to get there then it's a good idea

if this car is at a high level but no ludicrous so much the better

I know with at least the Neon acr's they were good for beginner all the way through advanced in that they seemed to be flexable and allowed even really good drivers improve to make use of the last tiny bit of it

since the driver cannot modify this car he only has to worry about improving his skill with it

 

some pics from this weekend

great drifting event and the US drivers are getting better

drift s2000 was dope ... really good to see those guys worked out the steering concerns they were having

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KIWI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice looking car... Good idea to rent it out and help the sport grow.
Our Team will also have two, possibly three competitive H1 cars available for rent to worthy drivers next season. There are lots of people out there who have the ability to drive well and could afford $1000 to $1500 per weekend for a really competitive car, but would rather not spend $30,000 to build one, never mind maintaining it.
Good idea, good luck with it.

Kiwi </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks, appreciate the comment .... if any one knows for sure you guys

really didn't plan on charging a whole lot to rent the car

i would like to run the car myself ... yet now is not the time

want to give the opportunity to some new 'inspiring' driver