This car is a daily driver and will not be raced or auto crossed. I want to improve the handling at a reasonable cost. My plan is:
1) New tires on 16" rims ($800)
2) Remove front sway bar ($0)
3) Lower the car 1-2" using springs only ($250)
4) Stronger rear sway bar (probably ST) ($150)
5) New shock/spring package ($1,100)

I plan to take one step at a time in this order, test the car after each step to see if I'm satisfed and continue only if I'm not.

Please add posts to comment or improve on this approach.

Thanks!

 

why are tou gonna emove the sway bar in the front

 

invest on energy bushings or some other aftermarket ones...Save up on good suspension (shock/spring combo) and do it all together as suppose to getting a set of springs and replacing them again at a later time. Will save you $$ and labor.

*I'd keep the front sways too.
*How do you plan on testing, if you're not going to autoX?
*What kind of tires and rims? Lighter rims will give you better response and less unsprung weight.

 

CRXEdGuy
I have read in a couple of places that it helps eliminate push (understeer) and that a stronger rear sway bar (preferably an adjustable one) would enhance cornering further. Is that not correct?

 

Thanks for the help EF_LSVtec.

I would street test the car.
I plan on rims that are the same weight as stock (around 17 pounds) or possibly lighter).
I don't have specifics on tires yet - size would be 205/40/R16, Z performance rated. Suggestions?
What do the energy bushings accomplish exactly? How easy are they to change?

Thanks


Modified by andystart at 10:01 AM 8/26/2004

 

Thanks for the help EF_LSVtec.

I would street test the car.

I plan on rims that are the same weight as stock (around 17 pounds) or possibly lighter).

What do the energy bushings accomplish exactly? How easy are they to change?

Thanks

 

the es master set bushings are great bro,they stiffen up everything..it makes your car more responsive..i would keep the front sway bar,i think removing that would be completely retarded,but its up to you and if you do everything at one time its alot less work,but again its up to you....good luck

 

personally i wouldnt remove it but try it out mayby its better, but i would stiffin up the front also. but why are going to do this if your not going to autocross it and stuff like that. i never heard taking off the front sway bars, putting on after market ones on yes but its on you.

 

Umm you kinda repeated 3 and 4..You might as well go with springs that are matched up with the shocks. Koni just came out with some stuff like that also..getting a tougher rear sway bar on the back of the 88's tend to make the back to slide out when hard turning. Just my $.02.

-Jon

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andystart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the help EF_LSVtec.

I would street test the car.
I plan on rims that are the same weight as stock (around 17 pounds) or possibly lighter).
I don't have specifics on tires yet - size would be 205/40/R16, Z performance rated. Suggestions?
What do the energy bushings accomplish exactly? How easy are they to change?

Thanks
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rota wheels...lightweight is good and they are inexpensive
Falken Azenis tires they will last a summer on HEAVY driving. very inexpensive.
205/45/R16 is the correct size to buy.

eliminate #3 "Lower the car 1-2" using springs only ($250)"
and go straight to 5) New shock/spring package ($1,100)

for around $650.00 you can get a coilover suspension from Ground Control thats fully adjustable i think its like 3-4 inches. KYB AGX shocks on Ebay brand new run under $300.00 for all 4 and those are adjustable as well. adjustablility is key when your trying to tune your car for those hard corners. you will need a camber kit to adjust your camber once you lower the car.

My car is lowered about 1 1/2 inches on all corners... rides great and can take a hell of a hard corner. BTW im on Rota/falken azenis/GC coilovers/KYB AGX so if you have any questions just ask.

 

Thanks for the advice on removing the front sway bar. Here's a link to one of the threads - admittedly it's on an auto-x board which underlines what you said.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=794339

So the front sway bar stays.

I'll research the ES bushings. I've read about them and have two red flags:
They're screamingly difficult to exchange (more getting the old ones off than anything wrong with the ES's)
They crack if you're not careful. I had a note of another brand somewhere that was better - Pro-something?

I guess I'm trying to decide now if I need to go as far as the strut/spring replacement. It's expensive and I'm wondering if I'll get to where I want to go without doing it. Still not sure.

Manson:
Thanks also to you for the specific suggestions. I'd picked out some OZ and AT Italia rims but I'll certainly look at the Rota / Altezi combo. I hadn't gotten started on the shock/spring package but I'll follow ujp on your suggestions.

Everyone - thanks a bunch for your help - you make this one cool board to be on!


Modified by andystart at 2:33 PM 8/26/2004

 

Actually buddy, you're gonna have to try out having and not having a front sway bar. My race car (88 crx) doesn't have a front bar because it would cause the car to skate. Sometimes removing the front bar is needed in order to get the car to rotate better.

With no front bar my non-LSD tranny practically "hooks-up" out of the corners like a LSD tranny.

At least try it out with or without.


edit: upon further thought, if you are trying to reduce understeer by getting a BIGGER rear bar I would then just say remove the front bar and keep the stock rear bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andystart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the advice on removing the front sway bar. Here's a link to one of the threads - admittedly it's on an auto-x board which underlines what you said.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=794339
</TD></TR></TABLE>

FYI, my post (linked above) was based entirely on a road race setup and it assumes a number of other things about the suspension setup (alignment, non-street spring rates, IT rules, etc). I would never drive a car set up like mine on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

FYI, my post (linked above) was based entirely on a road race setup and it assumes a number of other things about the suspension setup (alignment, non-street spring rates, IT rules, etc). I would never drive a car set up like mine on the street. </TD></TR></TABLE>

please everyone, REREAD THIS and listen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by travis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FYI, my post (linked above) was based entirely on a road race setup and it assumes a number of other things about the suspension setup (alignment, non-street spring rates, IT rules, etc). I would never drive a car set up like mine on the street. </TD></TR></TABLE>



I have 2 1988 crx si's. One is my street car and the other is my ITA race car and I would never use the same suspension setup on my street car as I do on my race car. One of many reasons, it's too low and too stiff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andystart &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This car is a daily driver and will not be raced or auto crossed. I want to improve the handling at a reasonable cost.</TD></TR></TABLE>
With that disclaimer, here's my advice.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) New tires on 16" rims ($800)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good luck with a good set of tyres and wheels for $800. Go for 15" and get Kumho 712s. They aren't the greatest, but, they will last a few years.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2) Remove front sway bar ($0)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Leave it on. If you were autocrossing or doing w2w racing, i'd suggest removing it. However, cars handle really funny on uneven surfaces without a front bar, plus, you'd lose some steering response.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3) Lower the car 1-2" using springs only ($250)</TD></TR></TABLE>
if you're only doing 1", great. stock shocks should be ok.
if you're doing more, get some aftermarket shocks. Don't worry about sleeved coilovers or crazy high spring rates. Eibach pro-kits will be fine matched to some cheap KYB AGX shocks. total cost... about $600 shipped.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4) Stronger rear sway bar (probably ST) ($150)</TD></TR></TABLE>
will definitely help. but, a rear ST bar for a '88 are tough to find.

to other posters, remember, he's NOT racing this. a street setup should be compliant as well as responsive.

 

Some of the advice in this thread is horrible. I will give you two setups. One for racing and one for street. If it is a street car, go the street route! You will find it more than likely handles worse for you if you use the race setup on the street.

Street &gt;

Semi-lightweight 15" wheels (95 GSRs are a great choice)
Kumho 712 or MX in 205/50/15
KYB AGX Adjustable Struts
H&R Race Springs (Eibach Sportlines are good too)
Front and rear strut tower bars (try to get bars that are ONE piece, not a three-piece bolt together - I have learned this from experience)

And thats all you need. It will handle so well. I have half that setup (struts, springs and front strut bar only) and can take 90 degree turns at 50 with very slight body roll and no squeeling of the tires.

Race &gt;

Ultra-lightweight 15" or even 14" wheels (i.e. Panasports)
Nice sticky tires, Hoosiers or Azenis in 215/50/15
Koni Yellow Adjustable Struts
Ground Control Coilovers
Front and rear strut tower bars (see above)
Remove front sway bar and install a Suspension Techniques adjustable bar on the rear

That is a perfect price/performance combo for both. I wouldn't want to drive that race setup in the rain though. Especially if it were to rain!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FairlightRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some of the advice in this thread is horrible. I will give you two setups. One for racing and one for street. If it is a street car, go the street route! You will find it more than likely handles worse for you if you use the race setup on the street.

Street &gt;

Semi-lightweight 15" wheels (95 GSRs are a great choice)
Kumho 712 or MX in 205/50/15
KYB AGX Adjustable Struts
H&R Race Springs (Eibach Sportlines are good too)
Front and rear strut tower bars (try to get bars that are ONE piece, not a three-piece bolt together - I have learned this from experience)

And thats all you need. It will handle so well. I have half that setup (struts, springs and front strut bar only) and can take 90 degree turns at 50 with very slight body roll and no squeeling of the tires.

Race &gt;

Ultra-lightweight 15" or even 14" wheels (i.e. Panasports)
Nice sticky tires, Hoosiers or Azenis in 215/50/15
Koni Yellow Adjustable Struts
Ground Control Coilovers
Front and rear strut tower bars (see above)
Remove front sway bar and install a Suspension Techniques adjustable bar on the rear

That is a perfect price/performance combo for both. I wouldn't want to drive that race setup in the rain though. Especially if it were to rain!</TD></TR></TABLE>

so what's the big deal...those both sound like street setups to me.

why not have coilovers when they are as expensive as springs...upgrade hello?!
adjustable struts a must if you want to tune your suspension...
azenis tires are not that sticky...there are much better race tires...
strut bars are good on the street and on the track...
and the sway bar is a preference on how you like your car to perform... some like the bar some don't.

the setup i suggested is a good street setup, but will also perform in a race situation as well. maybe not as good as some of the people posting in here with actual race cars, but for someone that just wants to go out and tool arounds on a track and have a good time...

race suspensions consist of many more componets then Fairlightracing is mentioning. i personally would rock that on the street...which i do except for the race compound tires...

can anyone else clue in what they are running on the street vs the track?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not have coilovers when they are as expensive as springs...upgrade hello?!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Coilovers are significantly more expensive. A complete GC/Koni setup cost me $970 shipped direct from Ground Control, earlier this year. A basic progrssive-rate street lowering spring, such as the Eibach Pro Kit, Tein S.Tech, or H&R OE will run you $150-200 per set, and have a much more pleasant ride on the street. These particular springs are also soft enough that they can be used with stock shocks, though I always recommend upgrading to an aftermarket "performance" shock (not OEM replacements like KYB GR-2 or Tokico blues).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">azenis tires are not that sticky...there are much better race tires...</TD></TR></TABLE>
They're not "that sticky" because they're not race tires. They're street tires, and they are damn sticky street tires at that. Highly recommended for HPDEs and street-tire autocross because of their decent stick and long tread life for these applications. Note: for just driving around on the street, Azenis don't have a long tread life; I'd recommend something inexpensive yet still reasonably grippy, such as a Kumho 711 ($45 apiece in 205/50-15).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can anyone else clue in what they are running on the street vs the track?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am running bone stock suspension and 205/50-15 Kumho 711s on my daily driven 2000 Civic. It is very comfortable. On my track car I am running GC coilovers with 500lb F / 600lb R springs, Koni Sports with off-the-shelf valving, stock CRX Si sway bars, and 195/60-14 Azenis on the stock 14x5" wheels. By the end of this season I will be running with 205/50-15 Azenis on 15x7" Rota Slipstreams, I will have Ground Control upper mounts in the front, and I will have removed the front sway bar, though I am unsure at this point if it will stay off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Coilovers are significantly more expensive. A complete GC/Koni setup cost me $970 shipped direct from Ground Control, earlier this year. A basic progrssive-rate street lowering spring, such as the Eibach Pro Kit, Tein S.Tech, or H&R OE will run you $150-200 per set, and have a much more pleasant ride on the street. These particular springs are also soft enough that they can be used with stock shocks, though I always recommend upgrading to an aftermarket "performance" shock (not OEM replacements like KYB GR-2 or Tokico blues).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well yes for a GC/Koni setup you are going to pay, but for an off the shelf GC coilover and an off the shelf KYB AGX shock your paying around $650.00 shipped.
this is more of the path i personally would like to travel since a set of springs and KYB AGX shocks will still run you into the $500 range....why not get the best you can for just an extra $100?! and have full adjustability....thats just my opinion.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
They're not "that sticky" because they're not race tires. They're street tires, and they are damn sticky street tires at that. Highly recommended for HPDEs and street-tire autocross because of their decent stick and long tread life for these applications. Note: for just driving around on the street, Azenis don't have a long tread life; I'd recommend something inexpensive yet still reasonably grippy, such as a Kumho 711 ($45 apiece in 205/50-15).</TD></TR></TABLE>


I know its a street tire, but the person i responded to was refering them to a race setup.... maybe i should have worded that clearer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I am running bone stock suspension and 205/50-15 Kumho 711s on my daily driven 2000 Civic. It is very comfortable. On my track car I am running GC coilovers with 500lb F / 600lb R springs, Koni Sports with off-the-shelf valving, stock CRX Si sway bars, and 195/60-14 Azenis on the stock 14x5" wheels. By the end of this season I will be running with 205/50-15 Azenis on 15x7" Rota Slipstreams, I will have Ground Control upper mounts in the front, and I will have removed the front sway bar, though I am unsure at this point if it will stay off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

nice setup...do you run any kind of camber/toe adjustments as well?

 

i hope your running poly urethane bushings in your race setup, its a fairly cheap upgrade and stiffens up the front a lot