Well guys, Carl and I took the head off last night (Thanks Carl!!!). I was expecting some oil in the exhaust ports. Instead it was in the intake ports. This to me means that it was either a seal or guide causing this.


The intake manifold also had oil in it but only about 3 inches up. To me this means that the oil was coming from the engine not from the PCV catch can setup (which I thought was a possiblity). Now I assume this mean the engine doesn't have much blowby which is a good thing.


The only other possiblity was that oil rings could be crap. I don't see this as being the problem as I would thing there would be oil in the exhaust ports as well. These ports are bone dry.

FYI, I am running NA for break-in right now!!

If anyone has an idea, please let me know. If you need more pics of something let me know.

TIA,

Brad


Modified by ladysman at 3:17 PM 8/19/2004

 

I don't see anything unusual, just gas residue.

 

wut made u take the head off in the first place? wut symtoms did u have? did u have a previous post of u blowing ur motor or something?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krazn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wut made u take the head off in the first place? wut symtoms did u have? did u have a previous post of u blowing ur motor or something? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Massive oil consumption. 1 quart every ~100 miles or so.
For the record, leak down test was performed and it came out fine along with the compression test. This was a last resort trust me.

Earl, that isn't gas, that is oil. You can tell by feeling it. Not a good thing in my book. I have been known to not be very Smucking Fart though.

 

wow thats alot of oil usage,

 

Here is what the Hondata Gasket looked like


Also, would pictures of the actual chambers help? The intake side was soaking wet with oil. #4 cylinder being the worst off.

 

man...i dunno wut to say...that is alot of oil consumption. i barely need to fill up my oil...and i'm leaking around the oil pan...but thats another story.

i just dont understand how ur compression and leak down test came out all perfect?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ladysman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only other possiblity was that oil rings could be crap. I don't see this as being the problem as I would thing there would be oil in the exhaust ports as well. These ports are bone dry.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure that the head is your only problem, but I doubt you would see any oil in the exhaust ports either way, as it would burn off right away.

 

:scratches head: I guess I'd send the head to a shop and have them check it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GITWIDIT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">:scratches head: I guess I'd send the head to a shop and have them check it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree. seems strange for it to be consuming THAT much oil. i would think maybe valve seals or something. i'm not very smucking fart either. good luck buddy

 

Is it possible that your Turbo seals have gone bad??? Did you check the Charge pipes for Oil residue?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turboteg96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it possible that your Turbo seals have gone bad??? Did you check the Charge pipes for Oil residue?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks but I am running NA. Good idea though.

 

Now that I noticed that you said your N/A, I would guess it would be the PCV catch can set up is the problem. Thats a ton of oil to get pass the guides and seals and then travel into the intake track under vac. IMO

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RA166E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now that I noticed that you said your N/A, I would guess it would be the PCV catch can set up is the problem. Thats a ton of oil to get pass the guides and seals and then travel into the intake track under vac. IMO
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the catch can was the problem, the plenum and almost all of the IM would be filled with oil. It isn't. Only about 3 inches from where the IM meets the head is there oil.

 

Most oil that leaves the engine in form of blow-by is obviously going to be burnt or vaporized. You can't really expect there to be a large amount of oil even with an engine that has excessive blow-by.

Also, it easy to see that oil vapors would collect only on the bottom portion of the IM because it's heavier than air.

I agree with you that your IM doesn't look like it's belongs to an engine with excessive blow-by. Maybe more pictures would help??? however, I can tell you oil accumulation around the IM gasket is not normal,

It looks like you had some headwork done and maybe some of the oil consumption can be attributed to valve seals/guides.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stewie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It looks like you had some headwork done and maybe some of the oil consumption can be attributed to valve seals/guides.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the most likely scenerio.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stewie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most oil that leaves the engine in form of blow-by is obviously going to be burnt or vaporized. You can't really expect there to be a large amount of oil even with an engine that has excessive blow-by.

Also, it easy to see that oil vapors would collect only on the bottom portion of the IM because it's heavier than air.

I agree with you that your IM doesn't look like it's belongs to an engine with excessive blow-by. Maybe more pictures would help??? however, I can tell you oil accumulation around the IM gasket is not normal,

It looks like you had some headwork done and maybe some of the oil consumption can be attributed to valve seals/guides.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks Stew.
Yes, extensive headwork done. When I was talking about the PCV, how I have it hooked up would indicate some should be up in the upper portion of the IM including the plenum as the vacuum source is there. I only ran the PCV setup for about 150-200 miles of the 700 that are on the engine. The rest I had a filter on top of the Endyn catch can setup (included with the kit).

 

Are you sure that someone didn't just forget to install the valve guide seals? Or maybe installed the wrong ones? Cause that's a ton of oil to be losing!

 

I had crx that I had rebuilt the engine and had all kinds of work done to it bigger vavles, angle the valves, cut the head. I guess the machinist didnt do a good job I ended up like that burning lot of oil, I will check valves, if you had anything done to them or the guides!!!

 

check for leaks in the charge pipe of the turbo, i had that problem as well and had also a lot of oil consumption...

whats about the exhaust? did it burn oil?

Greets
Malte.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">check for leaks in the charge pipe of the turbo, i had that problem as well and had also a lot of oil consumption...

whats about the exhaust? did it burn oil?

Greets
Malte.</TD></TR></TABLE>

1 more time, I am running NA for break-in.
I will change my original post.

 

I would just take the head to a specialty head machine shop, and have them check the seals and guides.

Thats the #1 target from what I can see.

 

I had a set of bad valve guides cause the exact same problem. The stem seals were fine but there was just too much clearance in the guide. Could find no leaks, and there was oil residue on the back of the intake valves, but exhaust side was FINE. Apparently the exhaust side can have more clearance as it'll get taken up with the heat of the valves back there.

One quick check, on a dead cold start look for a single puff of blue smoke. That's the ONLY symptom that allowed us to figure out the root of the problem. No smoke otherwise. No oil in the exhaust side of the motor.

Not a Honda, but I hope this helps!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bryson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would just take the head to a specialty head machine shop, and have them check the seals and guides.

Thats the #1 target from what I can see.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The head has been dropped off at the machine shop. Will have more information tomorrow afternoon.

 

This is what is happening now. Hope to hear more tomorrow. My brother (Max Diesel) may be posting as I will be out of town. The preliminary was they are a "little loose".