I am going to my first track event this Sunday at Button Willow in my 96 GS-R. The thing is I have OEM brake pads with OEM brake fluid... is it a must to change the pads before the event? I was looking at Cobalt GT-Sports.

Also, even if I don't change the pads, should I change the brake fluid to Motul 600 or ATE SuperBlue? Thanks.


Modified by acnownzu at 4:16 PM 8/17/2004

 

Super BLOOO =

I'm not sure how different the material in the stock GSR pads is from the ITR, but I see guys run HPDE on stock ITR pads and rotors.

If it were me, I'd get the Cobalt GT's, flush my system with Super Blue, then after the events, bleed the system and check your pads. (bring extra set if necessary)

 

How many bottles of SuperBlue will I need to completely flush the system?

-Jeff

 

2x 1-liter bottles. I use less than 1 liter when flushing, but always have extra just in case.

If you can get better pads, its worth it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you can get better pads, its worth it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd imagine that .RJ is right. At the very least, you wouldn't want to waste the money spent on an HPDE by not being able to push 100% for the entire session because your brakes aren't up to par.

 

imo brake fluid is way more important than the brake pad .

two other great brake fluids are motul 600 and wilwood 570 hi-temp. i have used both (never tried the ate stuff) and i havent had much problem with brake fade. I also use autozone carbonmetalic pads because they are $35 a pair and beat on my brakes accordingly. for a starter pad oem will probably be ok, but getting a better pad after you have got the hang of things is deffinantly a good idea.

have fun

 

Don't *EVER* go to the track without a back up set of "I gotta get home!" brake pads. O.E., Pepboys, whatever.

 

On my 94 GSR, with stock brake pads on the stock Michelins, 2-3 stops with the abs working from 60-30 would fade the brakes enough to make abs impossible to engage. Those tires had lousy grip and braking on the track is from much higher speeds, so I would really consider a pad upgrade. Remember that GSR brakes = Civic brakes(EX and Si from early to mid 90's) + more weight+ 45 more hp. Having more brakes than you need is way better than not having as much as you want.

 

Well, this event got scrapped cause it was too last minute, but it looks like I'm going to the Streets of Willow Springs on September 3rd. I'm definitely going to change the fluid before then, and hopefully I'll be able to get Cobalt GT-Sports.

-Jeff

 

I'd suggest, like others have, to bring an extra set of pads (fronts), and also an extra, fresh, unopened bottle of fluid, brake bleeding kit (cheapo-plastic jobber is fine), XX mm open ended wrench and a friend who knows how to press the brake pedal.

You might not need any of these things, but what a PITA it is not to have them if you do wind up needing them.

Good luck and have fun... Driving home from a track day with "boiled" fluid is not fun.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaddMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't *EVER* go to the track without a back up set of "I gotta get home!" brake pads. O.E., Pepboys, whatever.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Been there, done that. Actually, it was after the first (and last) time I tracked the ITR with the OEM pads. I drove back to Erik's house using nothing but the backing plate to stop the car and we ended up having to go to autozone that night just to get me home to Tucson the next day.

IMHO, don't track the OEM pads. Save the OEM pads for the drive home and use something else on the track.

 

I'd warn you that the Coblat GT Sports may not be enough for you either. I roasted mine on the track.



It's a good bad for beginning HPDE, but an advanced driver can over heat them.

No matter what, change the fluid to something better. And do as others said, bring extra brakes and fluid.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd warn you that the Coblat GT Sports may not be enough for you either. I roasted mine on the track.

It's a good bad for beginning HPDE, but an advanced driver can over heat them.

No matter what, change the fluid to something better. And do as others said, bring extra brakes and fluid. </TD></TR></TABLE>


So what caused this? Low temp DoT 3/4 fluid? Or no anti-seze on the piston and pad contact point?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd warn you that the Coblat GT Sports may not be enough for you either. I roasted mine on the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bull, that pad still has some life

Definitely get some performance pads, and I'd also recommend some Valvoline Syntec brake fluid, very cheap and very good.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd warn you that the Coblat GT Sports may not be enough for you either. I roasted mine on the track.

It's a good bad for beginning HPDE, but an advanced driver can over heat them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, more often it's the reverse. A beginning driver tends to overuse the brakes (slowing the car down more than necessary, and doing it over a longer distance) than an experienced driver.

FWIW, I am now on my second set of Cobalt GT Sport pads on my ITR. The first set worked GREAT! I got over 400 actual track miles on them, similar to what I've gotten from pads such as the Endless CC-X, Carbotech Panther Plus, and OEM.

I agree that you might want to consider swapping pads to the GT Sport on your GS-R before taking it to the track (as well as the advice to flush your fluid beforehand - Motul RBF 600 has even higher boiling points than the SuperBlue - and the advice to bring a spare set of pads). The brakes are the weakest point on the GS-R when tracked, and were the biggest reason why I stopped tracking my GS-R and eventually got the ITR for the track. I have a set of Porterfield R4S pads that look just like that photo of the GT Sports, where they got hot enough that the backing plate softened and bent around the piston.

 

Thanks for all the help guys. Looks like I'll be able to get the Cobalt GT-Sports this week, and the Subaru dealer by my house stocks RBF 600, so I'll be using that to replace the brake fluid.

One more questions though... is it urgent to change the rear pads too, or should I just change the fronts? I have about 40% life left on the OEM pads in the rear and I'm a little low on cash this month.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shmeek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd warn you that the Coblat GT Sports may not be enough for you either. I roasted mine on the track.

It's a good bad for beginning HPDE, but an advanced driver can over heat them.

No matter what, change the fluid to something better. And do as others said, bring extra brakes and fluid. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm a huge believer in the GT-sports, but the last time i was at SOWS the GTS's were crying for mercy 10 mins into my run group. It was hot out there, and september temps may be cooler, but i experienced enough pad fade to get me off the track early. The smokey display was fascinating to watch.

other times i've been to SOWS and it's been cooler (20 degrees F cooler) the GT-S's worked just fine. Also, the day i smoked the GT-S's we were running SOWS CCW which is much tougher on brakes than CW, so there are alot of variables to consider--but the GTS's will be a definite step up from OEM.

also i second the Valvoline brake fluid. easy to find, cheap, and works well. i've blown enough money out of my butt on motul6

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acnownzu &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all the help guys. ...stocks RBF 600, so I'll be using that to replace the brake fluid.

...change the rear pads too, ... I have about 40% life left on the OEM pads in the rear and I'm a little low on cash this month.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You should be fine with the OEM pads in the rear. But make sure you check both inside and outside pad on both sides. I made that mistake on the fronts once and created some nice "METAL" (said with a head banger snarl).

 

Don't want to hijack this thread. The cause of my brake issues were multiple. See here...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=919456

Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but putting the grease between the caliper and pads does nothing more than prevent squeeling.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by emwavey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You should be fine with the OEM pads in the rear. But make sure you check both inside and outside pad on both sides. I made that mistake on the fronts once and created some nice "METAL" (said with a head banger snarl).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, you should be fine. At the track, front pads wear much, MUCH faster than rear pads, because the weight of the car transfers to the front when braking. I doubt that you'll use up your rear pads in one event (even considering how tiny they are).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also i second the Valvoline brake fluid. easy to find, cheap, and works well. i've blown enough money out of my butt on motul6 </TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. The higher the dry boiling point, the better the resistance of the brake fluid to boiling when it's fresh. See for yourself how these fluids stack up:

Motul RBF 600 - dry boiling point 593 degrees F
ATE SuperBlue - dry boiling point 536 degrees F
Valvoline Synpower - dry boiling point 502 degrees F

And the other nice thing about Motul is, it's only around 12 bucks a bottle, so we're not talking about a lot of money for that extra protection against boilover.

 

I would be SO much less confident if I didn't upgrade to the cobalt gt-sports on the track.. its just amazing what a night and day difference track pads (and super blue fluid) make, keep two sets (track and stock) and swap as necessary.

this is a NECESSITY and you will realize just how important dedicated track pads / race fluid is after just ONE LAP.

you will 100% regret it if you go out there with stock pads (in the front at least, keep the backs stock)..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I disagree. The higher the dry boiling point, the better the resistance of the brake fluid to boiling when it's fresh. See for yourself how these fluids stack up:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

as soon as you open the bottle tho your fluid has become "wet". Putting into the brake system will contaminate it so you will never actually have a 593* bp(for mutol600 at least). always check the wet bp, the bp when the fluid has absorbed as much moisture as it can hold. its a good thing to know and compare between different fluids.

 

i run my stock gsr pads at autocross all the time, as long as you dont sit on the brakes around the corners you should be fine in that situation. Button Willow is most likely a lot longer than the typical autocross course so an upgrade would be beneficial. You could use the gt-sports as your dedicated pad, and use the gsr pads on the street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98integraLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as soon as you open the bottle tho your fluid has become "wet".</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, it doesn't. It takes a while for the fluid to absorb so much moisture that its boiling point is lowered down to the wet boiling point. Wet boiling point may be important for folks who leave their brake fluid in the car for long periods of time without flushing it. It is less important to track folks who typically change it pretty often.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98integraLS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">always check the wet bp, the bp when the fluid has absorbed as much moisture as it can hold. its a good thing to know and compare between different fluids. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Motul RBF 600 - wet boiling point 420 degrees F
ATE SuperBlue - wet boiling point 392 degrees F
Valvoline Synpower - wet boiling point 343 degrees F