Hi,
well i'm thinking about swaybars for my cx hatch.
i've got coilovers (450f 350r) and koni yellows on right now.

i'm set on the si/ex front bar(21mm)
and i'm really interested in the neuspeed rear bar(19mm).

now I know most people run 22mm rear bars, like the ITR bar,

but I am kind of worried about being OVERLY taut, or wound too tight.
the car is a street car, and my daily driver, i've got 195 es100's.. so my overal grip isnt exactly "unending".

I like the idea of having some play, instead of the car just being a gokart that likes to slide instead of compressing..

so YEAH i'm pretty set on that 19mm bar..

but i'd still like to hear your opinions on what kind of difference a 19mm bar would have compared to a 22mm...
not sure if the neuspeed is adjustable or not..

 

I've thought of this too. IIRC, the ITR rear sway is hollow and the Neuspeed is solid, which means the standard formula for rigidity would not be applicable between the two.

 

Why are you contemplating a rear sway bar at all? I don't see where in your post you mention why you are adding a rear swaybar other then other people do it.

Your only concerns seem to be about making the car too stiff or uncomfortable so why add swaybars?

Bill: I have never heard the ITR bar was hollow and judging by the weight I doubt it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why are you contemplating a rear sway bar at all? ....other people do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

*ding* *ding*

ppl need to do more driving first, then thinking for themselves and then ask questions. too often around here its the reverse.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why are you contemplating a rear sway bar at all? I don't see where in your post you mention why you are adding a rear swaybar other then other people do it.

Your only concerns seem to be about making the car too stiff or uncomfortable so why add swaybars?

Bill: I have never heard the ITR bar was hollow and judging by the weight I doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

As I indicated, I was not 100% certain. However, if it is, it would be fair to say that a solid bar of lesser diameter could be as or more rigid than a larger diameter hollow bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

*ding* *ding*

ppl need to do more driving first, then thinking for themselves and then ask questions. too often around here its the reverse.</TD></TR></TABLE>

people also need to stop jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.
I know there are alot of arrogant people in here, but lets try and keep that in check eh??

I want swaybars because my current setup has more bodyroll than i'd like,
and I dont want to go with higher springrates, as my konis are prettymuch maxed out already as far as damping(in the front at least).

I'm not too worried about a comfortable ride as far as adding swaybars..

so anyways, back on topic,
can someone confirm whether or not the ITR bar is hollow? and the neuspeed solid?

thanks.

 

*yawn*

aye


Modified by Tyson at 4:19 PM 8/13/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*yawn*</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah dude, chill.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah dude, chill.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You seem to be the one forgetting that you're in the RR/AC forum asking about suspension for your daily driver. Some honda forums have a suspension forum - but this is not one of them.

Ranting aside... it sounds like you would be better served by the smaller bar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">people also need to stop jumping to conclusions and making assumptions.
I know there are alot of arrogant people in here, but lets try and keep that in check eh??

I want swaybars because my current setup has more bodyroll than i'd like,
and I dont want to go with higher springrates, as my konis are prettymuch maxed out already as far as damping(in the front at least).

I'm not too worried about a comfortable ride as far as adding swaybars..

so anyways, back on topic,
can someone confirm whether or not the ITR bar is hollow? and the neuspeed solid?

thanks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zero...47923


Not hollow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You seem to be the one forgetting that you're in the RR/AC forum asking about suspension for your daily driver. Some honda forums have a suspension forum - but this is not one of them.

Ranting aside... it sounds like you would be better served by the smaller bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeh, I know, ppl on this board get gnarly with that,
and I dont tolerate it because I dont like being put on trial.
I shouldn't have to explain what I use my car for.

as I said.. assumptions and conclusions are

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bill Hook &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zero...47923


Not hollow. </TD></TR></TABLE>

ok thanks.

i'll prolly just get the neuspeed bar then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I want swaybars because my current setup has more bodyroll than i'd like
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It depends on how much body roll you want to eliminate:

19mm = some
22mm = more

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It depends on how much body roll you want to eliminate:

19mm = some
22mm = more</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, i think the 19 is the way to go for me..
I dont want it to be rigid as a rock.. some play can be good.

maybe if I had some gnarlier tires...

if I had the money I'd get a set of 15x7 and really gummy meats..
track only

 

I was pretty fast in auto-x with my 19mm Neuspeed sway bar (btw, it's solid). I switched to 22mm and noticed the difference but it made me very slightly faster, nothing big. The car fishtails more now because it got more rigid back there but the car just feels weird. It felt perfect with the 19mm.

I still have the the 19mm Neuspeed bar if you want it. I had it on the car for a couple of years and it won me tons of trophies. My Teg had a very neutral feel with it and I liked the car better with the 19 than with the 22 now but I 've gotten used to it. It 'll make a big difference in your car, more so than it did with mine, because your CX is a lot lighter than my 2600lb GSR. It fits any g5 Civic. It even says on the box 92-95 Civic and 94+ Integra. Let me know if you 're interested otherwise I 'll put it in the classifieds section. Oh I even have the Neuspeed rear lower tie bar which ties the 2 LCAs together (thus the word "tie"). That made a difference too. Very nice piece. The hardware/fasteners, endlinks (with poly bushings), etc. are top notch too. They 're black with yellow lettering that says "Neuspeed".

 

hollow doesn't necessarily mean it's softer than a solid either. you must know the dimensions of the bars to determine that, then there's a formula to apply. it's basically weight/size/cost that determine which one is used.

quick answer from my butt: 19mm for daily imo. not to mention ease of installation in some cases.

 

hmm yeah, sounds about right,
people talk about how they want their huge swaybar so they'll have oversteer instead of understeer..

well we have fwd cars! not rwd! were going to understeer, a superstiff tail = slidin! which i'm not down for, so yep 19mm it is!

vteconly chekc ur pm

 

here is what i have done and it was an awsome setup for me.


380f-w/koni yellows, NO FRONT SWAY BAR.

450r-w/koni yellows, 19mm sway bar.


IMO if your going for the front bias type of suspension you REALLY need to get up there in the rates.

again IMO if you but the 21 up front and the 19 in back, with those spring rates, your going to have a car that handles worse then it did befor. or under steer more then befor.

but who am i what do i know, hope your setup works out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is what i have done and it was an awsome setup for me.


380f-w/koni yellows, NO FRONT SWAY BAR.

450r-w/koni yellows, 19mm sway bar.


IMO if your going for the front bias type of suspension you REALLY need to get up there in the rates.

again IMO if you but the 21 up front and the 19 in back, with those spring rates, your going to have a car that handles worse then it did befor. or under steer more then befor.

but who am i what do i know, hope your setup works out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah I know it would seem that way,
but actually the front and rear bars dont function the same.
from what i've read, the front bar is actually alot more rigid than the rear,
if they're the same diameter.

so its not like you need to match the mm front and rear to have a neutral setup,
because it really doesnt take that much to control roll in the rear.

& the 21mm bar i want comes stock on this chassis(the si).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah I know it would seem that way,
but actually the front and rear bars dont function the same.
from what i've read, the front bar is actually alot more rigid than the rear,
if they're the same diameter.

so its not like you need to match the mm front and rear to have a neutral setup,
because it really doesnt take that much to control roll in the rear.

& the 21mm bar i want comes stock on this chassis(the si).</TD></TR></TABLE>

i guess you missed my point. or i didn't make it clear enough


putting on a front bar will only increase the need for higher rear rates, or a bigger rear bar.

just puting on a rear 19mm might not be a bad idea.

again this is just my opinion

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm yeah, sounds about right,
people talk about how they want their huge swaybar so they'll have oversteer instead of understeer..

well we have fwd cars! not rwd! were going to understeer, a superstiff tail = slidin! which i'm not down for, so yep 19mm it is!

vteconly chekc ur pm</TD></TR></TABLE>

It sounds as though you are a newbie to what a car should be doing to go fast. This is not an "assumption" but rather a conclusion after reading some of your posts. The fastest FWD race drivers (very fast record holding SCCA and NASA racers) that I know do not share your perception of what a car should do. An oversteering FWD car is faster then a neutral car for a driver who is skilled and capable of using this oversteer to drive quickly. A newbie may like a neutral or maybe even a pushing car because it feels more comfortable and safer. That said, you are asking a question about size of a anti-roll bar and you don't seem to like what people are saying in response. Don't take what I've said above as a slam, but realize that you need to be honest with yourself as to what the answer to your above question should be.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i guess you missed my point. or i didn't make it clear enough


putting on a front bar will only increase the need for higher rear rates, or a bigger rear bar.

just puting on a rear 19mm might not be a bad idea.

again this is just my opinion</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeahh, I think your point is eluding me a bit.
remember i have NO bars currently.
and i have no intention of adding a front only.(maybe i'd do it for a little while if it arrived before my rear or something.. but thats it).

but yeah, only the rear 19 might be interesting..
would be too tail happy for the street tho..
maybe when I hit the track

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hmm yeah, sounds about right,
people talk about how they want their huge swaybar so they'll have oversteer instead of understeer..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is for competition use only. Oversteer on public streets is down right dangerous.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah I know it would seem that way,
but actually the front and rear bars dont function the same.
from what i've read, the front bar is actually alot more rigid than the rear,
if they're the same diameter.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got it backwards. The front is LESS effective because it has more bends then a rear swaybar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RineRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


You got it backwards. The front is LESS effective because it has more bends then a rear swaybar.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

is that right?
can anyone else verify that?
not doubting u, just wana be fo sho

 

Assuming the effective moment arm is the same, then the extra bends will provide stress concentrations and more torsion (= more deflection) for the same input. Not a huge difference.